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Friend up for biglaw partner... firm added non-equity tier, extended timeline
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Date: October 24th, 2025 10:46 AM Author: Wild Shrine A friend works at a reasonably well regarded V50 firm. As of a few months ago, the firm had a 1-tier partnership. No non-equity partners. He was up for partner this year and said he had a good shot.
But, the firm announced (a) the creation of a non-equity tier and (b) that associates and counsel would need to spend "at least 3-5 years" in the non-equity tier before consideration for the equity tier. Presumably, this means no one will get a real breakfast for the next 3-5 years.
Said friend is very unhappy. He says he only stayed this long to get breakfast, and he doesn't want to stay another 3-5 years to have a shot at breakfast. However, he doesn't really have any other options for biglaw equity partnership, so he said he is staying despite this. |
Date: October 24th, 2025 10:54 AM Author: hilarious gas station This is market. It's creeping up the Vault Rankings too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49370944) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 10:58 AM Author: Beady-eyed Magenta Goal In Life Set Hey. Hey. Hey! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49370955) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 10:55 AM Author: chrome garrison what difference is another 3 to 5 years?
was he planning on checking out completely once making equity partner? |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:04 AM Author: Wild Shrine It's a huge difference. Probably 1.5-2x the money each year. Getting onto the partnership ladder quicker so you get to mid-level partner money sooner. The certainty of getting breakfast. Having a leadership role. Not having to eat as much shit that rolls down to you as an associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49370968) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:41 AM Author: Lascivious lodge being a partner is like being held down by several burly men who cram shit down your throat as fast as they can imo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371081) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:00 PM Author: Wild Shrine OK. Now do being a 9th year associate at an NY V50 firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371142) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:03 PM Author: Lascivious lodge less shit imho (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371162) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 8:18 PM Author: mahogany titillating wagecucks hall Same but slightly more money and healthcare. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372874) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:55 PM Author: Laughsome violet rehab You forgot about the part where we make millions of dollars per year. I’ve never given two shits about equity partner complaints as they make millions. If the schedule is too arduous they can go work a 9-5 barista or construction job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371319) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 10:55 AM Author: translucent rebellious bawdyhouse that sucks, it's a brutal lifestyle (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49370951) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:02 AM Author: carmine rough-skinned university i was at a lower-ranked firm (V60s) and they had a fake single-tier partnership structure, where you started out at 10% and worked your way up. so basically they have nonequity partners who have a terrible tax burden and a bunch of horseshit to deal with.
that shit sucked. sounds like your friend would be in that boat for a few years, although he will at least be a w-2 employee, which is significant.
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:05 AM Author: translucent rebellious bawdyhouse what's 10%? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49370969) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:47 AM Author: carmine rough-skinned university at my firm, there are no nonequity partners. you'd think everyone is equity, but that isn't true. every partner has at least a 10% equity stake in the firm. i don't understand the mechanics of this, but firms apparently do it to game the PPP numbers.
if you are a newbie partner, you are saddled with the tax burden of being self-employed, paying taxes in like 15 states, etc. but you don't get the benefit of truly being an equity partner, because 90% of your pay is a salary, and only 10% is based on firm profits.
there are several tiers there, like 30%, 50%, 60%, etc. i know a dood with a $2m book and he's stuck in the 30 or 40% tier. i never made it out of 10% |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:49 AM Author: Lascivious lodge what is the denominator ffs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371103) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:04 PM Author: carmine rough-skinned university what they seemed to do with fake equity partners like me is come up with a salary they thought you should be paid and just back into the number so that 90% of it was a set payment and 10% varied with firm profits. i had like 0.000000012% of the firm, or some retarded number like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371171) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:09 PM Author: Lascivious lodge i see. at my firm, all partners have some percentage of the overall pot and that's it. they express it in terms of units though and don't tell you how many units there are, so you can't figure out your percentage of the total (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371196) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 1:51 PM Author: carmine rough-skinned university i was later a midlaw equity partner and that's how the comp was done there too. i left for another midlaw firm and i am eligible for equity at the beginning of 2027, but it seems to be the same way here.
that equity tier thing is a complete scam. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:46 PM Author: translucent rebellious bawdyhouse if you don't know how many units there are, how do you know that they're not screwing you? they just ask you to trust the management committee or whatever? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371622) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:48 PM Author: Wild Shrine Yeah, you're a "partner" in the business. They should tell you the total number of units. That's pretty basic info. In any event, you could probably ballpark it based on knowing the firm's overall profit for the year (which they all publicly report) and the value of your units. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371626) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:55 PM Author: translucent rebellious bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371650) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:20 PM Author: Lascivious lodge everyone is always trying to figure out whether they are being screwed. that's the "fun" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372038) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 8:21 PM Author: mahogany titillating wagecucks hall This is a classic xo poast (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372888) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:06 AM Author: Wild Shrine I was under the impression the new tier--assuming he gets non-equity breakfast--would be 0% equity, but I'm not sure.
What made the tax burden terrible? Paying W2 taxes on 90% of your income, then needing to file returns in a bunch of other states for the rest? |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:36 AM Author: hilarious gas station They'll pay you on a 1099, offer nothing in terms of retirement or health insurance, you pay 100% of FICA. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371061) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:48 AM Author: carmine rough-skinned university yeah that's it. the tax burden was a good 20% haircut. pretty 180 if you're making $700k or whatever, but not if you're making a little more than a senior associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371097) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:51 AM Author: Insecure stage becky with the taxes you are making less as a new partner than as a senior associate? or still more? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371108) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:53 AM Author: carmine rough-skinned university i wound up getting a decent bump where i made (net) slightly more than i did my last year as an associate, but barely more.
from there, i got $10k raises each year. after like three years of this i left. issue was i was on a rainmaker's team and the guy didn't share client credit for shit. i stole $1m of his book, so it worked out. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:02 PM Author: Wild Shrine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371151) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:54 AM Author: Brindle deranged business firm dingle berry What is breakfast in this context? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371121) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 11:59 AM Author: Painfully honest aromatic office weed whacker Breakfast = equity
Continental breakfast = new business cards that say "partner" and a 1-word modification to you firm website bio |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:06 PM Author: Wild Shrine It's frustrating because this is yet another insult from boomers and the handful of gen x'ers who made it. My friend worked hard, did good work, and now, at the end of this stage, people who got breakfast after 7 years billing 1700 hours in a world without email tell him, "Give us another 3-5 years and we'll talk," and it's purely to juice their already-7-figure PP(E)P numbers.
I told him he should hie to in house. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 1:58 PM Author: Lascivious lodge my firm still makes 8th or 9th year associates equity partners on the reg. i assume they'll have to stop soon to stay "competitive" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371444) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:35 PM Author: Wild Shrine It comes down to (a) whether the average partners and bulk of partners are OK with relatively lower PP(E)P than they might otherwise acheive and (b) can they keep the big time rainmakers happy enough that they don't flee to another firm that will give them a higher relative portion of the overall partnership's profit pool. Cravath has been dealing with this, where partners that could make more elsewhere, have, for the first time in 100 years, decided to go do so because Cravath traditionally had a narrow band of partner comp--the highest paid partners only made a few times more than the lowest paid partners, whereas at, e.g., Kirkland, big timers can get 20X what other (equity) partners make. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371594) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:57 PM Author: translucent rebellious bawdyhouse cr have been hearing about this trend for years. so kirkland and latham are on the rise, and maybe paul weiss, and cravath/skadden/simpson/davis polk/cleary are sort of treading water? i expect most of those latter firms are starting to expand the pay bands and abandoning lockstep partnership, in order to increase pay and keep rainmakers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371659) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 8:19 PM Author: mahogany titillating wagecucks hall If it’s the money that matters he should not hie to in-house. Partner level pay for a in-housemo requires worse hours than big law partner is more stressful and is way rarer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372880) |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 2:29 AM Author: Fighting Chartreuse Public Bath This is difficult to believe. What kind of in-house work are you describing here? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373376) |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 10:00 AM Author: mahogany titillating wagecucks hall The general counsel at the beck and call of the entire executive team with 8 direct reports, working around the clock for $2 million (in total comp, not cash).
The AGCs are working that hard to earn $400-600k and hoping to get a GC job.
There are super chill jobs in-house, but not for more than $400k.
In-house is way more variable so there are probably exceptions, and you can get really rich off your equity, but it’s not the high-probability play to earn >$1 million/year. |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 7:38 AM Author: appetizing ivory private investor principal's office Lawyers are leeches and nobody inherently deserves anything other than what their skills can earn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373446) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 12:47 PM Author: Indigo cowardly crackhouse This is everywhere now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371304) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:01 PM Author: hideous area mad cow disease Obviously if it’s possible he should go to another biglaw firm where there is an offer of equity partnership immediately or after a year or two. That’s probably not possible though unless he is in a niche. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371461) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:32 PM Author: Wild Shrine There is no other V50 firm that would give him equity in the next couple years because, like 98% of V50 senior associates, he doesn't really have a book that he could bring with him. So, if he wants equity, his best bet remains to grit his teeth and stay with his current firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371576) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:34 PM Author: carmine rough-skinned university biglaw partner in general now seems like a festering TTT in decline. firms have made it harder and harder to maek it. i was friends with a guy in my group who's about 8 years older than me. he made partner in like 2005 then made equity in 2007 (back when the firm was on a 2 tier structure). the guy never has had a book and has probably $25k in origination credit, he's just a 180 lawyer.
when i made it, i got stuck in their scam 10% equity tier and was severely underpaid.
boomers pulled up the ladder. biglaw of counsel might be the credited move. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:39 PM Author: Wild Shrine Yes, biglaw partnership is even worse than it used to be, especially when factoring in the path to get there.
But, not counting what it takes to get there, real equity partnership at a V50 firm seems pretty nice, and the pay is astronomical, buoyed by a lot of the things that make biglaw tough (fewer equity partners, more hours).
The roughest is non-equity partnership or partnership in general at sub-V50 firms (and probably many V20-50 firms, too), where you have all the pressures of partnership, but you make less than a V20 7th year associate, and you can get the boot at any moment. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:44 PM Author: carmine rough-skinned university re your last point, i was at a firm in the 60s, in their DC office. they pay market to first years, but everything after that is black box. i lateraled there when 1st years made 170, and as a 7th year i was making 240k. got put up two years later making 260k. got a bump to 315k (but took on a huge tax burden). i was told it got much better after a couple years, but it didn't bc i never had my own book. i had to steal my book and go to midlaw.
my last year, my fifth as a partner, at that firm i was making 360k. this is when the lockstep scale went to like 420k for senior associates, lmao.
my comp this year should be around 600k, so i guess it's good i left. i would probably be making around 500 tops if i'd stayed.
i was surprised when they initially made me an offer and it was so much lower than lockstep. up to then, i thought ALL biglaw firms paid lockstep. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:48 PM Author: translucent rebellious bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371625) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:54 PM Author: Wild Shrine Biglaw generally used to pay lockstep. That's part of what made it biglaw. The firms paid the market rate. That's less and less the case outside the V20 or so.
Congrats on 600k. That's solid.
Being a 5th-year partner only making 360 is rough. What's the point? Not only of the work that year, making 360k, but also of all the work making less than that to get there. It's not much of a light at the end of the tunnel. At 360k, it's much better to go in house, hang a shingle, or join a smaller firm. Sadly, there are many such cases. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:45 PM Author: carmine rough-skinned university i squandered my whole time in biglaw, which is a shame because i loved it at that firm. but i was a serious drug addict and drunk and my life spiraled out of control. once i cleaned up, i decided to bounce bc my pay sucked so badly.
i got complacent because i was so fucked up and my numbers kinda sucked but the firm never gave me shit about it.
i tried a case once on zoom while wearing an ankle bracelet after being released from jail, lol. but anyway, when i pulled my head out of the baggie of cocaine and saw how bad my pay was, i just left. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:53 PM Author: twinkling slippery library He should take the title bump and then move down market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371642) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 2:56 PM Author: Wild Shrine He makes the market senior associate rate, or close to it. $500k+. I doubt a lower-ranked firm would pay him that much today, make him partner today, and not fire him in 2 or 3 years if/when he doesn't have a book. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49371655) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:26 PM Author: twinkling slippery library If he has no ability to generate than he should take what he gets based on his service specialty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372057) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:35 PM Author: Wild Shrine You are correct in implying that his next-best alternative isn't great in terms of getting breakfast. That is, he can't just hie to partnership at another big law firm.
It's still frustrating and unfair (for the little that's worth) that he played the game after decades of the ladder being pulled up, and almost reached the ladder, only for the ladder to be pulled up further. |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 5:17 PM Author: twinkling slippery library There’s always Kirkland (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372302) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:31 PM Author: Painfully honest aromatic office weed whacker Lol I had no idea how bad it's gotten. These are numbers that I topped 3 years into starting my own firm, in a far lower-COL area, working when and how I choose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372082) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:35 PM Author: Lascivious lodge 🙄 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372093) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:37 PM Author: hideous area mad cow disease Wow you are so amazing, faggot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372101) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 5:02 PM Author: Painfully honest aromatic office weed whacker I legitimately feel bad for you guys. Not flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372277) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 4:45 PM Author: carmine rough-skinned university DESCRIBE your practice pls (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372137) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 5:02 PM Author: Painfully honest aromatic office weed whacker Litigation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372271) |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 7:41 AM Author: carmine rough-skinned university What kind? Or general? This is very impressive, good for you. I have a decent sized book ($1.5m or so) and I don’t think I could bring myself to go solo. Too much risk and worrying about admin shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373448) |
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Date: October 26th, 2025 1:00 AM Author: the walter white of this generation (walt jr.) Where I am, the big challenge has always been finding good people (attorneys and staff, although I am not a big believer in staff). We've finally got a good crew of associates and staff, quality over quantity. Also, at a small firm, one attorney goes on maternity leave or, god forbid, gets mobilized for jag duty, and all the sudden it's two all-nighters per week just to push everything to the back burner and keep it there without boiling over. Potentially for the whole time they're gone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49375269) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 8:15 PM Author: mahogany titillating wagecucks hall He’s lucky. He’ll make it next year or two. No one at Kirkland is ever tasting equity again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49372868) |
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Date: October 24th, 2025 9:07 PM Author: walnut unholy indian lodge trust fund My firm is also “reevaluating equity partnership criteria.” I think there are consultants going around telling the boomers they can make more money by being more greedy. Suddenly all my reviews are focused on BD. And this is in the context of like 30% rate hikes over the last few years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373007) |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 2:12 AM Author: Milky azn I saw a litigation budgeting worksheet and it built in 10% rate hikes for each of the next 6 years (as far as the spreadsheet went). It’s insanity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373367) |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 10:52 AM Author: carmine rough-skinned university the rates are absurd. i'm in midlaw now, at a fairly small firm (140 lawyers) and they told me they want me to charge new clients $1100/hr. i'm a traditional labor lawyer, and while we can set much higher rates than employmenTTT litigators, $1100 is retarded. biglaw labor bros don't charge that much, so i fail to see why someone's going to go with a much smaller name and pay more for it.
i've been telling the firm that all new clients are "a client i worked with at my last firm" so i can extend that rate to them ($850, so it's kind of high in the first place). |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 7:42 AM Author: appetizing ivory private investor principal's office Genocide all lawyers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373449) |
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Date: October 25th, 2025 10:54 AM Author: carnelian bateful legend locale Name? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5789340&forum_id=2\u0026show=posted",#49373643) |