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AP FACT CHECK: Misleading to say Hospitals use race to prioritize treatment

Spot the logical flaw! https://apnews.com/article/coronav...
Abusive heady lay
  01/23/22
https://twitter.com/trichmond1
cracking pisswyrm prole
  01/24/22
This is the same Jewish sophistry angle that libs are trying...
Pungent cocky becky abode
  01/23/22
...
bearded iridescent sanctuary
  01/23/22
105, actually.
stimulating spot kitty
  01/23/22
You aren't using race to decide if it's not the decisive fac...
fuchsia big public bath
  01/23/22
Lol what did you get on the LSAT
Pungent cocky becky abode
  01/23/22
he’s not wrong, just dumb and/or disingenuous.
domesticated mauve sandwich
  01/23/22
(lib mind at work)
Abusive heady lay
  01/23/22
And if you have two or more equally weighted factors, nothin...
cracking pisswyrm prole
  01/23/22
...
Abusive heady lay
  01/23/22
...
Pungent cocky becky abode
  01/23/22
To be fair, It won't "work" indefinitely, becau...
Bateful Faggot Firefighter Toaster
  01/23/22
...
Adventurous sound barrier box office
  01/23/22
Reminds me of the sophistry of the fact checks after Trump&r...
Dark home
  01/23/22
...
buck-toothed fear-inspiring center
  01/23/22
libs are fucking scum
mahogany provocative haunted graveyard
  01/23/22
...
turquoise nubile crackhouse newt
  01/23/22
...
Abusive heady lay
  01/23/22
...
galvanic corn cake puppy
  01/24/22
race is simply a social construct. also, science demands ...
hilarious school cafeteria alpha
  01/23/22
This is the same as CRT in schools. They implement it and wh...
180 Shrine Famous Landscape Painting
  01/23/22
conservatives are always "pouncing" and "seiz...
hilarious school cafeteria alpha
  01/23/22
Playing right into their hands!
cracking pisswyrm prole
  01/23/22
...
Abusive heady lay
  01/23/22
...
grizzly costumed point
  01/23/22
...
turquoise nubile crackhouse newt
  01/23/22
“ dying from COVID-19 at younger ages.” 16 y/...
purple godawful dilemma electric furnace
  01/23/22
...
Multi-colored unhinged wagecucks
  01/23/22
I can't spot it. 110 IQ here
Learning disabled forum messiness
  01/23/22
Maybe not quite a logical flaw, but the article seems to say...
Coiffed Mental Disorder Business Firm
  01/23/22
>>>The problem is we have extremely conclusive evid...
Abusive heady lay
  01/23/22
Actually nigs and other browns have generally worse reaction...
Pungent cocky becky abode
  01/23/22
Why would they need to have created civilization? Why wouldn...
rebellious brunch partner
  01/23/22
Because they have lived in civilization for like 100 years a...
Pungent cocky becky abode
  01/23/22
Haven't blacks lived in Western civilization for like 400 ye...
rebellious brunch partner
  01/23/22
cite? if race is an actual comorbidity, then it follows they...
mahogany provocative haunted graveyard
  01/24/22
They cannot admit anything like this because it would also b...
Pungent cocky becky abode
  01/24/22
...
Abusive heady lay
  01/25/22
Conservatives: Liberals are doing X! (Most normal people und...
Frum cordovan macaca theatre
  01/23/22
...
Ruddy harsh kitchen
  01/23/22
...
turquoise nubile crackhouse newt
  01/24/22
Research shows that people of color are at a higher risk of ...
Vibrant senate
  01/23/22
yeah, no. death rates for youngs is so far to the right of t...
mahogany provocative haunted graveyard
  01/24/22
Race-Based Allocation of COVID Therapies Is a Problem Some ...
hilarious school cafeteria alpha
  01/25/22
Include link?
turquoise nubile crackhouse newt
  01/26/22
He's a thoughtful libertarian. https://thedispatch.com/p/...
hilarious school cafeteria alpha
  01/26/22


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 1:06 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay

Spot the logical flaw!

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-race-and-ethnicity-racial-injustice-madison-251ffe2672b6c40ca7b8a0a7341959f2

Medical experts say the opposition is misleading. Health officials have long said there is a strong case for considering race as one of many risk factors in treatment decisions. And there is no evidence that race alone is being used to decide who gets medicine.

JP Leider, a senior fellow in the Division of Health Policy and Management at the University of Minnesota who helped develop that state’s allocation criteria, noted that prioritization has been going on for some time because there aren’t enough treatments to go around.

“You have to pick who comes first,” Leider said. “The problem is we have extremely conclusive evidence that (minorities) across the United States are having worse COVID outcomes compared to white folks. ... Sometimes it’s acceptable to consider things like race and ethnicity when making decisions about when resources get allocated at a societal level.”

—-

Considerable evidence suggests that COVID-19 has hit certain racial and ethnic groups harder than whites. Research shows that people of color are at a higher risk of severe illness, are more likely to be hospitalized and are dying from COVID-19 at younger ages.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832564)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 24th, 2022 3:19 AM
Author: cracking pisswyrm prole

https://twitter.com/trichmond1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43836535)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 1:08 PM
Author: Pungent cocky becky abode

This is the same Jewish sophistry angle that libs are trying to use to roll back the affirmative action ban in Washington state

"It's ok to use race as a consideration factor when doing X, as long as it's not the *only* or *decisive* factor"

Unfortunately, spotting why this is bogus is impossible for anyone under 130 IQ, so it will work

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832578)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 1:31 PM
Author: bearded iridescent sanctuary



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832678)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:42 PM
Author: stimulating spot kitty

105, actually.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832965)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:44 PM
Author: fuchsia big public bath

You aren't using race to decide if it's not the decisive factor

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832972)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:45 PM
Author: Pungent cocky becky abode

Lol what did you get on the LSAT

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832983)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:03 PM
Author: domesticated mauve sandwich

he’s not wrong, just dumb and/or disingenuous.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833069)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:50 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay

(lib mind at work)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833003)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 5:14 PM
Author: cracking pisswyrm prole

And if you have two or more equally weighted factors, nothing is decisive, and everything is permissible!

*judge impotently shakes fist at tricksy lawyers*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833876)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 5:20 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833904)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 10:13 PM
Author: Pungent cocky becky abode



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43835495)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:03 PM
Author: Bateful Faggot Firefighter Toaster

To be fair,

It won't "work" indefinitely, because (sit down for this part):

As soon as a significant plurality of white Americans regain full racial consciousness -- and you're a fucking idiot if you don't think that will ultimately happen on the current trajectory that kikes have charted out for us -- this gay little hehe "only" or "sole" hehe or whatever distinction that Jews currently use to muddy the water on this shit enough to placate normie cattle (who currently strive to be "colorblind") will go straight out the fucking window. Niggers in front of whites in line? Fuck no. Period.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833070)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 1:37 PM
Author: Adventurous sound barrier box office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832712)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:24 PM
Author: Dark home

Reminds me of the sophistry of the fact checks after Trump’s rally last week - “ His claims that white people are not being given treatments for COVID-19 are untrue.”

https://www.businessinsider.com/arizona-rally-trump-claims-covid-19-treatment-is-anti-white-people-2022-1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832887)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:25 PM
Author: buck-toothed fear-inspiring center



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832890)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:29 PM
Author: mahogany provocative haunted graveyard

libs are fucking scum

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832906)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:40 PM
Author: turquoise nubile crackhouse newt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832956)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 4:17 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833588)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 24th, 2022 2:32 AM
Author: galvanic corn cake puppy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43836498)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:29 PM
Author: hilarious school cafeteria alpha

race is simply a social construct.

also, science demands that race be used as a critical factor in doling out medical care.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832910)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:45 PM
Author: 180 Shrine Famous Landscape Painting

This is the same as CRT in schools. They implement it and when someone objects, the media reports on it as a fake “conservative target”

The enemy of the people.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832980)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:46 PM
Author: hilarious school cafeteria alpha

conservatives are always "pouncing" and "seizing on"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43832987)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 5:14 PM
Author: cracking pisswyrm prole

Playing right into their hands!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833881)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 2:51 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833005)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:00 PM
Author: grizzly costumed point



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833059)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:10 PM
Author: turquoise nubile crackhouse newt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833125)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:15 PM
Author: purple godawful dilemma electric furnace

“ dying from COVID-19 at younger ages.”

16 y/o Ja’Quarius gets capped in a driveby, coroner tests his corpse for COVID and it’s positive, DING! Covid death of a good keed

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833157)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 4:54 PM
Author: Multi-colored unhinged wagecucks



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833780)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:16 PM
Author: Learning disabled forum messiness

I can't spot it. 110 IQ here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833168)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:25 PM
Author: Coiffed Mental Disorder Business Firm

Maybe not quite a logical flaw, but the article seems to say that conservative criticism of race-based consideration is "misleading" because doctors have actually been doing it for awhile.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833212)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:34 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay

>>>The problem is we have extremely conclusive evidence that (minorities) across the United States are having worse COVID outcomes compared to white folks

Black people do not have worse outcomes than whites due to their race. Black people have worse outcomes because, for whatever reasons not relevant here, they have higher rates of comorbidities such obesity and diabetes.

By simply using your rubric on obesity and diabetes, you can conduct your treatment assessments on fair, race-blind criteria that treats solely on the basis of risk. The fact this would mean more blacks get treated than whites is fine - they are the group at a higher risk, after all.

By implementing a racial filter for treatment, you would allow the prioritization of a healthy young black person over an old sick white person because you are confounding the variables you seek to assess against.

xoxo

hth



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833286)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 3:36 PM
Author: Pungent cocky becky abode

Actually nigs and other browns have generally worse reactions to covid because they never evolved resistances to respiratory viruses because they never created civilization - a necessary predicate to the ability of these kind of pathogens to spread through human populations

The real logical fallacy in this kike sophistry is the one that I pointed out in my above poast in this thread

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833320)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 4:19 PM
Author: rebellious brunch partner

Why would they need to have created civilization? Why wouldn't it be enough for them to simply live in a civilization created by whites?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833600)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 4:25 PM
Author: Pungent cocky becky abode

Because they have lived in civilization for like 100 years and never encountered these pathogens before then so they haven't had a chance to evolve resistances to them

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833632)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 4:26 PM
Author: rebellious brunch partner

Haven't blacks lived in Western civilization for like 400 years

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833637)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 24th, 2022 12:26 AM
Author: mahogany provocative haunted graveyard

cite? if race is an actual comorbidity, then it follows they would just say so. since they didn't...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43836153)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 24th, 2022 12:30 AM
Author: Pungent cocky becky abode

They cannot admit anything like this because it would also be an admission that there are other biological differences between races. The single most important, core tenant of the lib religion is that we are all the same and differences between groups do not exist

Even the recognition that different races have different bone marrow, organ transplant, blood types, etc has been made verboten by libs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43836176)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 25th, 2022 1:06 PM
Author: Abusive heady lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43844681)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 4:26 PM
Author: Frum cordovan macaca theatre

Conservatives: Liberals are doing X! (Most normal people understand X as bad)

Liberals: that’s a lie!

MSM: Liberals are right and conservatives are lying/misleading. Even though liberals ARE doing X, X is good.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43833639)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 10:12 PM
Author: Ruddy harsh kitchen



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43835484)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 24th, 2022 12:04 AM
Author: turquoise nubile crackhouse newt



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43836044)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 23rd, 2022 10:10 PM
Author: Vibrant senate

Research shows that people of color are at a higher risk of severe illness, are more likely to be hospitalized and are dying from COVID-19 at younger ages.

yeah, because they're unvaccinated. I thought we were supposed to be denying care to unvaccinated people.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43835477)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 24th, 2022 12:27 AM
Author: mahogany provocative haunted graveyard

yeah, no. death rates for youngs is so far to the right of the decimal point that calling it higher risk is specious

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43836160)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 25th, 2022 12:40 PM
Author: hilarious school cafeteria alpha

Race-Based Allocation of COVID Therapies Is a Problem

Some governments have implemented policies that are almost certainly unconstitutional as well as morally questionable.

Walter Olson

7 hr ago

26

8

(Photograph by Derek Davis/Portland Press Herald /Getty Images.)

Governments around the country have been directing medical providers to allocate potentially lifesaving COVID therapies among patients on the basis of race, a policy that is almost certainly unconstitutional as well as morally questionable. Now the Associated Press is out with an article on the resulting controversy, which it misleadingly summarizes thus:

Amid the omicron surge, some conservatives have taken aim at policies that allow doctors to consider race when allocating COVID-19 treatments. Medical experts say claims that the protocols discriminate against white people are misleading.

Almost every phrase here is likely to lead readers astray. Governments have been directing, not merely allowing, doctors to assign point value to BIPOC (black, indigenous, person of color) status in triage formulas for rationing scarce COVID therapies. The controversy over this predates Omicron, and has little to do with any one variant. And it’s not just conservatives and libertarians who object, as AP reporter Todd Richmond should have known, since he mentions a critique written for the Wall Street Journal by John Judis and Ruy Teixeira, both men of the left. As for the medical experts, they are at best selectively chosen, while the legal experts are nowhere to be seen.

For those late to this controversy, here’s a few examples of how the preferences work. In dispensing the scarce kind of monoclonal antibody that is known to retain broad effectiveness against COVID, for example, the Minnesota Department of Health prescribed a point system in which BIPOC status was worth 2 points, the same as diabetes or age greater than 65. New York state adopted a similar policy of racial discrimination in making available the breakthrough antiviral Paxlovid: access to the drug would depend on having some risk factor for severe illness, but nonwhite status would count as such by itself, whereas white patients would have to demonstrate some extra factor putting them at risk. A Utah state framework for dispensing monoclonal antibodies “gives ‘non‐white race or Hispanic/Latinx identity two points, more than hypertension or chronic pulmonary disease,” reports Aaron Sibarium of the Washington Free Beacon, who has broken several stories on the issue. Further, the federal Food and Drug Administration has also issued influential guidance promoting racial preferences.

Controversial, right? Richmond, the AP reporter, finds exactly one critic to quote, and it’s … cable host Tucker Carlson. Carlson is tersely quoted as claiming the policy means “you win if you’re not white,” an easily refutable misstatement, since even under the points-added practice many nonwhite persons are denied therapy and many white persons receive it. As for the promised “medical experts” who brand the criticisms as misleading, they amount to one University of Minnesota senior fellow who drafted the controversial criteria for his state. (The criteria have since been withdrawn following public furor and legal scrutiny.) AP also calls on stage a political science professor to call the whole thing a right‐wing campaign ploy.

Neither the Constitution nor its Equal Protection Clause makes it into the story, which is a shame. As I wrote in 2020 when the question was one of government racial preferences in the distribution of vaccines as distinct from therapeutics, under the 14th Amendment

citizens of all races are entitled to the equal protection of the laws. The Supreme Court has long interpreted this to mean that the government may ordinarily not dole out valuable benefits, or impose harms, based on a citizen’s race.

Courts thus apply “strict scrutiny” to any race‐conscious law or policy, requiring proponents to show that it fulfills a “compelling purpose” for the government and is “narrowly tailored” to achieve that purpose, tests that this policy would be unlikely to pass.

There are a few major exceptions but they do not apply here. Compensatory preference is OK when there has been recent, systemic discrimination against a minority group by the same level of government that wants to adopt the preference. (Inequality by itself, even when traceable to society‐wide discrimination, isn’t good reason.)

States will point out in response that persons from minority groups fare worse from severe COVID illness. This would, in itself, hardly justify awarding points based on the medically meaningless portmanteau BIPOC category, since some subgroups within that category, including many Asian‐American groups, appear to fare better than whites, not worse, in COVID outcomes. It's true that some factors that influence COVID outcomes do correlate with race as a proxy. But UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh points out that courts would be unlikely to uphold use of race as a proxy for claimed greater risk when authorities could instead focus on relevant direct risk factors such as poor socioeconomic status, diabetes, or asthma.

States have made no showing that COVID is intrinsically a disease of race, probably because there is no such case to be made: Multiple sources cast doubt on whether outcomes are in fact worse once proxy factors are accounted for. For example, a large New England Journal of Medicine study of Louisiana patients found “Black race was not associated with higher in‐hospital mortality than white race, after adjustment for differences in sociodemographic and clinical characteristics on admission.”

In portraying the objections to racial preferences in therapy as a concoction of racial demagogues on the right, the Associated Press has done a disservice to the controversy and its readers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43844549)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2022 1:07 PM
Author: turquoise nubile crackhouse newt

Include link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43850647)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 26th, 2022 5:28 PM
Author: hilarious school cafeteria alpha

He's a thoughtful libertarian.

https://thedispatch.com/p/race-based-allocation-of-covid-therapies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5014679&forum_id=2#43852318)