________

Me: hey!! i was wondering if you had any insight on this... basically i've always been sympathetic to socialist policy and the ideals of communism... but over the past year or so, i have lost ALL faith in govt institutions 100%. obv u have always questioned authority as well. so i'm wondering how you reconcile the fact that govts are inherently untrustworthy (and in many countries incompetent) with the hope that they successfully implement a just society?

Him: Great question! I think part of the issue stems from the idea that “socialism is when the government does stuff” - like when people call the post office socialist, or universal healthcare socialist. Those are examples of universal programs that benefit everyone, for sure, but they’re carried out by the existing capitalist government. (By capitalist government I mean a government that maintains a capitalist economy/private ownership of resources and capital, and chiefly represents the capitalist class)

Him: Socialism, in contrast, is a government run by the working class that seeks to reduce or eliminate the power of the capitalist class and the private ownership of resources/capital. So if you look at countries like Cuba, there are no large privately owned companies - there are some small private businesses (like family-owned restaurants and such) - and they try to have more democratic elections by prohibiting candidates from running under political parties, prohibiting campaign ads/giving all candidates the same amount of resources to share info about themselves, etc. And so as a result, Cuba has really good gender parity in its parliament and they just re-wrote their constitution after a long process that involved collecting input and suggestions as the local level and holding elections to vote on the changes.

Him: In contrast, the US government is dominated by multi-million dollar campaigns and special interests backed by large businesses (capitalists). That leads the government to represent those capitalist interests, rather than the interests of workers.

Even if you look at the “authoritarian” socialist countries like China, they’re arguably much more trustworthy than the US. A lot of the coverage of China, for instance, talks about how the government has to constantly do things like reduce poverty, create jobs, reduce pollution, prevent COVID deaths, etc, because their legitimacy depends on it. So in essence what the media is saying is that the Chinese government, whatever it’s perceived flaws, has to be responsive to people’s needs and has to make people’s lives better. Which, I would argue, is not the case in the US, where the government can’t even get basic things, like fixing roads and bridges, done.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591012)

- Box is reaching out to her "communist friends" because I reminded her in an earlier thread that her mother's family used to be literal communists. She's working on a re-rebranding.

- I'm familiar with this "friend" of hers.

He's a ridiculous 5'2 Chinese self-described "communist" who's been physically dependent on steroids since at least college.

He's in an open marriage with some hideous gender-ambiguous thing who also roids, and he had a kid with her.

He attempted suicide via an insulin overdose and failed.

He wanted to date Box in college, but Box refused because she was hung up on multiple posters and generally being a whore. He encouraged her to film hardcore porn with him in public locations across campus and post it on the internet. This was shortly before she was put on leave for mental health issues (threatening to murder her rooommates over another XO poster), and most of you are familiar with these images or videos.

He is by no measure Box's "best friend", but she has consistently called him this for a number of years. It's related to his permanent sullying of her reputation and the foolish notion that being close with him would undo this damage somehow (this same cognitive cope led her into a failed two-year relationship with the hideous poster who impregnated her within minutes of meeting).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44592439)

I am beginning to question whether she really is a demon, at this point she just seems like a brain cancer patient

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44595370)

You're a known and admitted slut AND Jew.

It would be more surprising if any of this stuff DIDN'T happen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44595405)

Me: so anything to take the power away from THEM (capitalist overlords) is putting us on a better track

Him: Right. So socialism isn’t just forcing them to give us things like healthcare or a higher minimum wage, it’s about taking power away from them and empowering ordinary/working people to have more control over their lives

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591063)

Blatant antisemite

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44595537)

This dude is a flat out retard who can’t think for himself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591070)

friend knows what he's talking about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591082)

and whatever, his dad is super legit and his pedigree is insane that's all i'll say.

whatchu know about the Ratty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591131)

Also, ask him why he assumes the goals of the Chinese Communist Party or Cuba are universally “good” as opposed to arbitrary measures intended to legitimize their own grasp on power (assuming they are even measuring their metrics honestly)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591084)

but i asked him anyways

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591115)

You’re supposed to just laugh at people like him.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591099)

i'm also the one who put together this thread. i'm only now looking into this stuff, but better now than later: http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5118454&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591145)

Yeah "communism" is just totally retarded and no intelligent person anywhere takes it seriously. It's a separate thing than liberalism in general, which is a coherent philosophy that can stand up to more than 30 seconds of scrutiny

Any person who self-presents as a "communist" or as supporting "communism" is either a stupid person or a very cynical very dishonest person trying to take advantage of others

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591156)

he's always been somewhat radical and often pisses people off for one reason or another. he's a free thinker if i've ever known one. there were some stances he took loudly at brown that people attacked him for (it would literally be outing if i elaborated bc was in campus newspaper)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591176)

Does he have a happy wife and kids? Communists want to abolish the family.

Does he have a successful business, or a lucrative job? Then he has abandoned his communist tenants of equality.

Does he have random orgies with unathletic women and effete men? That’s no one’s definition of success.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591386)

Commies still argue to abolish families to this day. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/want-to-dismantle-capitalism-abolish-the-family/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591493)

In fact, countless horror stories about low IQ petty retards put in high positions of power in Commie societies for this exact purpose.

Nicolae Ceaușescu for example was widely believed to possess an intellect barely capable of running a gas station. He made decisions like there shouldn't be a train station that goes to the university because why would students need to leave campus. This is the thinking you can expect from commies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591464)

Does he run a mediocre podcast aimed at pandering to low-IQ college grads who feel entitled to a higher quality of life than their risk-minimizing choices have led them?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591519)

A. Not actually very intelligent

B. Dishonest

C. Both

If he actually believed in "communism," he'd be trying to move back to "communist" China, where his ancestors came from, instead of choosing to live in a white, western capitalist country that has not even a trace of "communism"

Very odd indeed that all the wealthy native Chinese are currently fleeing "communist" China to instead live in this guy's horrible, evil, dysfunctional capitalist country of Canada. Odd case

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591294)

Better luck in Cuba (world's poorest country), North Korea. Even Vietnam gave up on real Communism.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591323)

There's a reason why China dumped communism as soon as they got rid of Mao. It sucks. Chinese people aren't stupid. And as soon as they got rid of communism, their country advanced faster than any other civilization in human history. Amazing!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591331)

It's funny because Karl Marx himself said in his Manifesto that no one in their right mind would ever go along with Communism unless forced to at gunpoint. Even the creator of this ideology knew that it had to be implemented against the will of the majority of the population, due to it being so terrible. This is why every Communist society has a core group of true believers that the State uses to rat people out for disagreeing and be more hardcore about it than average joes just going along to get along. Profound that the only way to implement such an unpopular, toxic point of view is to threaten to kill people if they don't go along with it. No one who believes in an ounce of Democracy could possibly get behind a one party state that controls everything. Communism is the *most* antidemocratic ideology ever implemented.

Cuba, by the way, is the poorest country on Earth. I believe its poverty is so extensive that it's considered immeasurable by modern metrics. Despite its natural resources, potential for tourism, and proximity to the world's largest global market, they've managed to, through their ideology, create the worst possible society. In capitalism, there are rich people and poor people and hopefully a middle class. Under Communism, everyone is poor. Has your friend never read anything about the Soviet Union and people standing in bread lines, millions starving to death, purges and pogroms, people disappearing in the night, work camps that worked people to death, and even in normal every day life everyone living cramped in state built housing units with thin walls and no space where the majority of Russians still live today, no access to radios and televisions and cars. Only something like 9% of the Soviet Unions 250 million plus citizens owned an automobile.

Has your friend heard of a 'Parchment Guarantee'? This is where you have a document such as Cuba's "Constitution" that grants all sorts of rights that are never followed through with. According to Justice Scalia, the Soviet constitution guaranteed far more rights than the US Constitution, but in practice they had none whereas our system of laws is actually adhered to. Cuba can guarantee its citizens all sorts of prosperity, but it doesn't have any ability to follow through or deliver on it. Compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw ("Lib Hypocrisy is fueling inequality") this NYT opinion video on how liberal controlled states also promise the most for their citizens but have not delivered on any of their promises. Just imagine, under Communism people would be even poorer, despite being "more equal."

Your friend would also look at a socialist candidate like Francois Hollande who was the President of France for 5 years who attempted to raise taxes to 75% for the highest earners in order to pay for more social services, and was universally hated by the French people and considered the worst President of the 5th Republic. Conveniently, your commie friend would not be for what Hollande is for. He's for actually 100% taxes. He's for the government gets 100% of what you earn and then they give back to you some random amount that's supposedly equal (and has nothing to do with the 'value' of whatever you produce. Because he's a Commie, everyone gets the 'same' although won't there still be a core group of elites who make 'more' because all humans are incentivized to obtain more wealth and power for themselves?).

Bottom line: there is no version of Communism where workers, or regular people actually have more power or more say in their lives. They actually have exactly zero say in their lives because in order to implement Marxism-Leninism, it requires a strong central State to plan and control everything. A single group of ruling elites that make top down decisions for everyone.

Some more stupidity: "they try to have more democratic elections by prohibiting candidates from running under political parties" lol yeah all political parties are banned because it's a 1 party state where one guy controls everything. Imagine running "against" this system and saying, "hey, this sucks! let's try something else!" lol they just throw u in prison and torture you for this, and your family members, too.

"they just re-wrote their constitution after a long process that involved collecting input and suggestions as the local level" >lol. "hi here, it's Juan. I live in a farm and barely have enough food to eat. I was thinking about a large scale revolution to overthrow the state... but... I'll take a cracker." *Cuban constitution rewritten* ALL PEASANTS WILL RECEIVE UNLIMITED CRACKERS DURING WORK DAYS (8 day per week work schedule, no days off, no holidays except the New Year which is observed as a day to worship the government/state). Juan - Hooray, my free state cracker!. No, sorry Juan, it's just, we don't actually have any crackers to give you. It just says that in the Constitution, though.

I wish this was the worst of it but the horror of Communism is far worse and brutal than the aforementioned. What I'm telling you is the white washed version in reality it's a fate worse than death.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591178)

he actually knows all about xo, should i have him come on here?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591213)

*blank stare*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591357)

tell me more about your whirlwhid romance with box

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591241)

China claims to have eliminated extreme poverty, and 3/4 of worldwide poverty reduction over the last 40 years have been thanks to China

But definitions aside, life expectancy and literacy rates have skyrocketed since China became socialist, so those are actual tangible results

Him: For #2, I never said I think the goals of China or Cuba are “good” in any moralistic sense. They’re just goals. So the question becomes what are the goal you want to support? The goal of protecting private property and the unequal distribution of resources that comes with it? Or the goal of eliminating private ownership of capital and building a society that treats the freedom from poverty as a human right? Or in other words, the freedom to not have healthcare or the freedom that comes from not having to worry about healthcare?

Also, they sort of are measures intended to legitimize their own grasp on power. Communist parties 1) are explicit about the fact that they want power and to establish a state for the working class and 2) explicitly state they intend to use that power to “serve the people”. My question would be “why is it bad that a government is under pressure to make people’s loves better in order to stay in power?” Isn’t that how it should be?

Him: The alternative is a government that doesn’t do anything to help people and stays in power anyway

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591250)

China's government is actually very close to what Hitler envisioned with National Socialism. An economically capitalist society with one party central rule, an ethno-nationalist state that viewed itself as superior to all other countries and viewed its end goal as being the most powerful in the world and everything benefitting them at the expense of others.

Two ways China has been superior to Nazi Germany: 1. They didn't try to take over the world with such destruction and speed that the entire planet turned on them to defeat them. In fact, the Chinese are keenly aware of this and their open political platform is that they want to take over the world slowly, so slowly in fact that no one notices or cares when it happens. They are on the record about this.

2. They didn't ethnically cleanse a group of people anyone cares about. The Uyghurs have no political power, financial means, or voice in the global theater. Also, perhaps somewhat brilliantly, China got all of the world's countries to rely on doing business with it economically, undermining our ability to retaliate. So, we all continue to do business with a country that's committing an immoral genocide. Generally, if you speak out about this in a high profile setting you will lose your job or otherwise become irrelevant in the global marketplace.

Your Commie friend is right, however, that being a Chinese billionaire is way cooler than being a poor Cuban farmer with a parchment guarantee. The only catch is that in China the billionaire is still beholden to the 1 party regime and sometimes the government disappears high profile people, too. So you're never really safe in this system.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591288)

“China claims to have eliminated extreme poverty, and 3/4 of worldwide poverty reduction over the last 40 years have been thanks to China

“But definitions aside, life expectancy and literacy rates have skyrocketed since China became socialist, so those are actual tangible results”

Ok. Good. That is exactly what I expected and wanted him to say. By his own definitions, the US is vastly better at eliminating poverty than China. There are zero Americans who live off of $1.90/day, especially once government transfers are taken into account. He doesn’t understand competitive dynamics in ecology or economics, which is why the US Census Bureau is moving their new poverty measure to the “Supplemental Poverty Measure” and why the World Bank and other institutions now have differentiated poverty levels by development.

Additionally, virtually all of the claims he is trying to take credit for in China occurred after 1985. Hardly strong evidence for communism.

His other points are just tail-wagging-the-dog nonsense, especially since he failed to back up point one.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591301)

He would have had a point if he pointed out that, using the Census Bureau’s SPM, states like California have the highest poverty rate in the US, and that poverty is a function of stress and the ability to fund your life and have long-term stability (my definitions; not anything official). But instead he just went for the definitional term and demonstrated that he hasn’t ever really thought about the issue before.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591580)

Even the shittiest New York Times kike sophistry coming from some stupid 26 year old Jewess dweeb is better than this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591324)

They have all kinds of economic problems and their growth has stalled significantly after reaching a certain point and this is why Xi released Covid, because he had to do something to hold back the West's expansion and reassert authoritarian rule on his own people.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44591359)

Russian kikes literally killed Stalin and then forced the collapse of the USSR because they're shittier communists (much shittier, tbh) than goys and they knew they couldn't lose control so they just had to get sloppy with it at the end--that hysterical anticommunist longscreed above was probably written by the spawn of some kike that had to hightail it to the US of A because they were too jewy and sucked at communism

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5119094&forum_id=2#44652208)