Pretty sure this Roe v Wade shit is a turning point
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 26th, 2022 11:18 AM Author: walnut garrison
Every other lib loss is usually “that’s your opinion and this is mine, you’re a piece of shit!”
This one feels different, almost as if this is something you can’t speak up about at all. If you said to anyone “I support this” I feel like there would be serious consequences and the government would just say “well you support the overturning of Roe so there’s nothing we can do.”
Also the way the TV and media and corporations are taking for granted that NO ONE supports this is definitely a click in turning the temperature up a bit.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44746944) |
Date: June 26th, 2022 11:38 AM Author: alcoholic newt
There is a difference. Other conservative positions which have gotten a lot of traction recently have revolved around granting people freedoms: gun rights, freedom of speech, etc. Libs may disagree but it’s a lot easier to stomach something that grants you a freedom you don’t desire than to see one taken away. This one, on the other hand, is about taking freedom away, and it was done by a panel of unelected bureaucrats, not elected officials.
This is only exacerbated by conservatives turning the dial straight to 100 and treating it like murder, without a biological or theological basis for doing so. of course there’s going to be a lot of furious people who (probably rightfully) feel threatened and lash out.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44747032) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 2:32 PM Author: narrow-minded site
Aren't ALL freedoms, in effect, freedom to remove freedom?
Freedom to raise your children includes freedom to limit their activities. Freedom to sell life insurance (edit: brainfart, obviously meant health insurance) that doesn't meet PPACA requirements includes freedom to limit what kinds of procedures people can get. Freedom to keep and bear arms includes freedom to limit what kinds of governments may be imposed. And, not to put too fine a point on it, but freedom to get an abortion is freedom to remove, finally and irreversibly, all freedoms the child could ever exercise.
So what the fuck are you going on about?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44747881) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 3:34 PM Author: alcoholic newt
“Aren't ALL freedoms, in effect, freedom to remove freedom?”
No. What are you talking about? Ignoring the fact that you have your defined terms wrong (PPACA life insurance?) you seem to have no comprehension of freedom as espoused in the Western tradition. The establishment of mutual cooperation and, ultimately, government is the voluntary surrendering of freedoms. You have a god given right to walk down a road, whether there is a government or not, and regardless of my freedom to assault you while doing so. Our mutual decision to limit sidewalk assaults isn’t granting you a freedom to walk; it’s removing the freedom to assault.
And if that is your argument for abortion, then by your own logic isn’t choosing not to fornicate morally identical? You have deprived of life a being which has yet to be ensouled. In one case, fertilization has occurred, and in the other, you deprived the person of even being conceived.
So, by being a Lawrence v Taylor dependent homosexual, how, by your logic, are you not equally morally culpable as a would-be mother who takes a morning after pill?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44748307) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 3:34 PM Author: narrow-minded site
You are literally retarded. Yes, I meant "health insurance" and typed "life insurance" as a momentary brainfart, but at least I didn't completely invent a case.
Explain to me how you'd walk down a road in a state of nature, fuckface.
Lastly, your idiotic moralizing is not a good substitute for legal analysis. Equal protection is clearly in the constitution; substantive due process, not so much. If you can't even wrap your head around that, then you don't belong on this board.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44754329) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 2:49 PM Author: Vivacious Orchestra Pit
"hasn’t read the federalist papers and doesn’t understand our country."
lol the entire purpose of the federalist papers was about how limited the federal government would be and how the states would still retain almost all power. many states had literal state churches, whose ministers were paid by the government, and there were church courts that had the power to compel people to do things which was enforced by the state.
this is one of the most retarded takes of all time. the bill of rights was only added because people were worried that the federal government would do shit like take guns or take away the press, so the BOR was added explicitly to guarantee the federal government did not do that. but the states were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44748029) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 3:40 PM Author: alcoholic newt
“the bill of rights was only added because people were worried that the federal government would do shit like take guns or take away the press, so the BOR was added explicitly to guarantee the federal government did not do that. but the states were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted.”
This statement might be the single dumbest thing ever written on XO; it is completely unforgivable for anyone with a JD to type that out. The Rights you cited are guaranteed for all citizens of the United States and can’t be usurped by a state government. I’m sure you know that, but your above comment makes it sound like those rights are just guaranteed to the states, who can in turn overrule them to create their own little fiefdoms. The Bill of Rights was as much about guaranteeing the rights and liberties of all men as it is about about expressly stating the limits of the federal government relative to the states.
Now please explain how the comment I was replying to is consistent with, for example, Federalist #10
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44748365) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 1:17 PM Author: Vivacious Orchestra Pit
"The Rights you cited are guaranteed for all citizens of the United States and can’t be usurped by a state government."
please explain how massachusetts had a state religion until 1833?
please explain why the incorporation doctrine is necessary if the BOR always applied to the states?
please explain barron v. baltimore (1833) that explicitly held that the state governments are not bound the BOR?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44753499) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 1:53 PM Author: alcoholic newt
Please explain Bruen, then. Do you think it’s just a function of the 14th Amendment?
My interpretation of Barron is that it was ruled on the basis of a technicality: that the laws were not written explicitly enough to apply the intentions of the writers. Plus the courts were trying to weave their way through issues like the rights of free Black men, etc., and couldn’t stir the waters too much without triggering a civil war (which happened anyways). The original writings in the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist debates make it clear that the purpose of the Bill of Rights was to guarantee rights and individual liberties. Thankfully, both Barron and Cruikshank have been rendered obsolete, though this is also ultimately due to a technicality (the 14th’s “Due Process” clause).
I’m not familiar with Massachusetts’ state religion, but it looks like it was overturned in part due to court cases. It’s fairly irrelevant, though, since states do unconstitutional things all the time, hence why the Supreme Court exists and has to make these rulings fairly regularly.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44753764) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 2:14 PM Author: Vivacious Orchestra Pit
bruen explicitly says it's because of the 14th amendment. that's what made incorporation possible according to the court.
i think it's clear that the BOR was not intended to apply to state legislatures. i think that's made clear in the federalist papers. and i think that is strongly evidenced by shit like states having their own state religions in 1789 that continued for about another fifty years, along with early scotus opinions explicitly holding they don't apply to the states. care to find me some scotus opinions that strike down state law because of the BOR before the 14th amendment?
saying that this was rendered obsolete by the 14th is completely irrelevant. of course scotus has decided that the BOR applies to the states *now*. what we're arguing about is what they meant in 1789, and i've provided a lot of evidence that they thought it only applied to the federal government.
how can you say that's it's embarrassing for a jd holder to believe this when that's exactly what scotus unanimously held when it first decided the issue?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44753917) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 2:41 PM Author: alcoholic newt
Yeah, I was having a bad night between both work and wife, and was just raging. I shouldn’t have said that, not only because it’s wrong (I tend to view the dependence on the 14th Amendment’s due process clause as a technicality intended to remove all doubt, which is not the right way to approach a discussion), but also because you’re a good poaster who generally always has cogent and smart comments. On the other hand, pushing your buttons tends to lead to some of the best legal writing on this forum in decades.
In regards to your point about the BOR applying to states, James Madison’s early drafts of the 5th Amendment were more explicit. If I remember correctly, he ultimately watered it down, and then warned that the clause was too watered down to actually be effective, though I could be thinking of someone else.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44754057) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 12:31 PM Author: autistic menage french chef
There were so many ways to deal with Roe.
Crazy Clarence decided to throw a bomb at it and choose violence.
Just because you are right doesn’t make it good policy or good for the general direction of the country. Should have had some common sense like Roberts.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44747276) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 9:53 AM Author: Rambunctious histrionic azn
Also the end result will be 1) huge electoral lift to Dems over the next decade as the final stage of demographic change puts the nail in the coffin in states like Georgia and Arizona, so as soon as 2024 but probably by 2028 National Roe, or at a minimum National Casey/undue burden becomes a federal law, and that process starts immediately as the GOP now gets to take a bunch of votes on codifying Griswold, Loving, Obergefell, right to travel for an abortion, etc. and the politics of that in swing districts/states will be terrible for the GOP, and 2) greatly increases the momentum toward/public appetite for adding seats and term limits, and that drum beat will only increase as scotus knocks down any more substantive due process cases, 3) will set the stage for any new lib majority to rule on an equal protection line of cases that will be much harder to attack. The Roberts approach had the appeal of limiting backlash and maintaining the court as the final voice on these matters. After Dobbs there is no stopping the full and permanent politicization of the court.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44752051) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 3:03 PM Author: red effete address
To be fair,
"Do you want a Civil War?!"
Yes. Yes, I do. PS: Many people are saying this!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44748138) |
Date: June 26th, 2022 12:08 PM Author: provocative crimson national idea he suggested
Lol faggot, I’ve been rubbing it in every shitlib i know’s face that the jig is up with their baby murdering racket and fag “marriage” is next
Sorry ur a pussy
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44747169) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 3:27 PM Author: Glassy titillating shrine
LOL
Thomas and Alito have likely been thinking EVERY DAY about how and when they will overturn that ridiculous gay "marriage" mandate.
No, they won't overturn Loving. Though when DeSantis replaces Thomas with Ted Cruz all bets are off
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44748265) |
Date: June 26th, 2022 1:36 PM Author: Glassy titillating shrine
You probably live in a big blue city like me, where it seems nobody supports it...but so what? We'll see in November that most people either don't care or support the decision. Scoreboard bitch...
And if anything it's more "acceptable" to support this issue than other conservative issues, because when you bring up the baby's rights, what do they have? And if they come after you be ready to beat the shit out of them. You live once, do it as a man.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44747558) |
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Date: June 26th, 2022 2:27 PM Author: turquoise kink-friendly therapy organic girlfriend
They did it all the way up until the modern era.
In the 15th century Pope Sixtus IV commissioned a fresco of him receiving drowned infants from the Tiber River.
https://iiif.wellcomecollection.org/image/V0030916/full/1338%2C/0/default.jpg
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44747852) |
Date: June 26th, 2022 3:08 PM Author: Nudist infuriating den goal in life
The real game changer isn't overturning Roe, which changes little in real life.
It's just a matter of time before the court takes up an AA-related case. It'd be hard to see this court not striking down AA.
And if AA is declared unconstitutional, most Fed DEI initiatives would become illegal, with major ramifications for institutions and higher education aka Harvard. Then all hell will break loose.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44748168)
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Date: June 26th, 2022 9:16 PM Author: red effete address
To be fair,
Good, Evangelicals are by and large cucks in 2022.
Kikes seem to think that what lies next after they mow down the Evangelicals is a 1000 year reign of endless and basically unchallenged Jewish communism power.
I think that what lies next after they mow down the Evangelicals is a rising and increasingly angry and paranoid resurgent mass white racial consciousness that is far less burdened than ever before in modern history by the slave-religion mentality otherwise imposed by "Christianity."
"That's retarded and you're stupid and wrong about everything as always," screamed all of the totally-not-Jewish XO pumos. Maybe so. Noted Jewish-German philosopher Heinrich Heine didn't think so nearly 200 years ago, however:
"In 1835, 98 years before Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party seized power in Germany, Heine wrote in his essay 'The History of Religion and Philosophy in Germany':
'Christianity – and that is its greatest merit – has somewhat mitigated that brutal Germanic love of war, but it could not destroy it. Should that subduing talisman, the cross, be shattered, the frenzied madness of the ancient warriors, that insane Berserk rage of which Nordic bards have spoken and sung so often, will once more burst into flame. This talisman is fragile, and the day will come when it will collapse miserably. Then the ancient stony gods will rise from the forgotten debris and rub the dust of a thousand years from their eyes, and finally Thor with his giant hammer will jump up and smash the Gothic cathedrals. ... Do not smile at my advice – the advice of a dreamer who warns you against Kantians, Fichteans, and philosophers of nature. Do not smile at the visionary who anticipates the same revolution in the realm of the visible as has taken place in the spiritual. Thought precedes action as lightning precedes thunder. German thunder is of true Germanic character; it is not very nimble, but rumbles along ponderously. Yet, it will come and when you hear a crashing such as never before has been heard in the world's history, then you know that the German thunderbolt has fallen at last. At that uproar the eagles of the air will drop dead, and lions in the remotest deserts of Africa will hide in their royal dens. A play will be performed in Germany which will make the French Revolution look like an innocent idyll.'"
Crazy... nothing like that would or could ever happen, surely! Anyway, guess we'll see who's right, haha yeah haha.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44750249) |
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Date: June 27th, 2022 10:57 AM Author: red effete address
To be fair,
This "country" is quickly balkanizing, and it will cease to exist as a "country" at some point within the next few decades. The demographics of the conservative state(s) that break away at that point won't exactly look like Manhattan or Los Angeles, in case you can't figure out how this will play out.
You're not nearly as smart as you seem to think you are, Jew. Actually, that appears to be a systemic issue with you people.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44752346) |
Date: June 27th, 2022 8:33 AM Author: territorial fanboi piazza
The culture war ratchets up a notch because it's less and less of a total shutout, libs angry, news at 11.
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4653326&forum_id=2#41132755
This is not sustainable, and while it may not get here for several years yet, a day of reckoning is coming. Hope you're prepared/preparing.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5139883&forum_id=2#44751847) |
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