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Hamilton (musical) is unwatchable due to shitlib agitprop
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Date: September 25th, 2022 8:52 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Multiracial women z-snapping about how the SECOND Declaration of Independence is gonna include women, Y'ALL.
Endless 1619 Project BS about how it's _really_ all about blacks/slavery.
Lie after lie about the founders, how they lived, etc.
Also uninspired and derivative melodies, syncopation patterns.
I tried to watch, I really did. It is unwatchable. JFC. |
Date: September 25th, 2022 8:54 AM Author: Exciting Native Hominid I literally don’t even know if I made it five minutes in before I gave up. I couldn’t even follow what they were saying.
A good musical just uses the songs as emphasis to the plot. Musicals where you have to pay attention to every lyric to know what’s going on are the worst. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 8:57 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness I got about ten minutes in, but I was making breakfast.
I could follow the lyrics, but it's true, they were way too busy. No real artistry in terms of setting up situations, themes, characters, etc.
The thing is a grotesque parody, a billion-dollar version of the Mr. Show sketch "RAP: The Musical". |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:03 AM Author: Exciting Native Hominid He loves to do that thing where everyone sings their verses simultaneously at the end. It becomes grating. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227048) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:59 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Yeah. Should've hired Pharaoh Monch or Necro or something. Anyway, the Robert Altman thing doesn't translate readily to theater. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227176) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:04 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse It’s called a Madrigal and is the last name of the family in Encanto. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227192) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:07 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Encanto had better music and was better overall, but was also close to unwatchable since they insisted on making everyone so ugly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227206) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 11:49 AM Author: Exciting Native Hominid He also did it in Moana. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227563) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:32 AM Author: arousing sinister theater gaming laptop Subtitles helped a lot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227090) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:34 AM Author: Exciting Native Hominid Not worth it lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227093) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 8:56 AM Author: Unholy avocado indian lodge toaster Saying that Hamilton is unwatchable "due to shitlib agitprop" presumes that Hamilton had some purpose other than to serve as shitlib agitprop in the first place (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227035) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:01 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Fair. Remembering an old xo thread where several people insisted that there were super-deep syncopation patterns and such, and having just read the Hamilton bio that reportedly formed the inspiration, I decided to give it the old college try. Yet the former is a lie---kids in my hs literally came up with better shit banging on tables at lunch, and many of them were technically retarded---and the latter a scurrilous lie, as the product I saw bore little relation to any real history. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227042) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:03 AM Author: Opaque Heady Step-uncle's House yes xo poasters were falling over themselves to praise Hamilton when it came out. embarrassing times. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227046) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:58 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227174) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:01 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse This is false. I was like the only pro Hamiltonmo on here and XO immediately hated it and called it trash even when tickets were still $600. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227182) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:17 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Well, you inspired me to give it the old college try. I have high hopes that some of the musical ideas, like emphasizing cantanas/madrigals but with a rap inflection + modern musical ideas/leitmotifs, can eventually give rise to real art. Maybe you'll be the one to do it. I've been a pill in this thread, but I see no reason why we should not proceed on terms of amity, given we apparently have similar faggy interests. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227237) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:26 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse The stuff with his kid makes me cry. Also, the Disney taped version doesn't hold a candle to the live performance. Even just the soundtrack is sharper than the taped audio. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227259) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:33 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness What songs should I listen to from the soundtrack? I unfortunately probably just can't stand to sit for the full performance -- maybe in consequence of recently reading and esteeming highly the Chernow book. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227282) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:48 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse I think the sequence from Helpless to Satisfied is the most technically complex, but it helps to see visually that they're retelling the same scene from different perspectives.
Wait for It is a beautiful song and establishes the word "Wait" for Aaron Burr, which is repeated throughout the musical and one of the main themes between A. Burr and A. Ham. Dear Theodosia gets me every time as it shows the similarities of fatherhood.
All of the King of England songs are fun, but not too special.
Room Where is Happened, It's Quiet Uptown
I mean, the entire sequence from Blow Us All Away until the end is incredible. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 11:15 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Thank. I'll give the songs a try.
Pretty crazy that Hamilton agreed to the duel even though his son had just been killed in a duel.
The scuttlebutt at the time that Burr had been training with a dueling pistol and always intended to kill is pretty funny. He was quite the character. Very xo, in many ways.
Ultimately, of course, the winner of the duel was Jefferson. But then, the Jeffersonian moment was just starting (after the failed presidency of Adams), and it would not truly end until Bleeding Kansas. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 11:05 AM Author: awkward slippery mother Fulano was a big supporter too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227390) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 5:07 PM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse yeah, he was (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45229016) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 11:53 AM Author: Shimmering house-broken electric furnace (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227582) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:10 AM Author: Salmon Hyperventilating Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230813) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:28 AM Author: rose senate isnt that the whole premise? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227083) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:36 AM Author: arousing sinister theater gaming laptop The irony of this is that Hamilton could no longer be made today because it has the audacity to celebrate the accomplishments of the founders who were white men.
LMM is ultimately a Disney funded corporatist, and was able to find a clever angle to mass produce something popular with white women, but it ultimately is a vehicle that worked only at that point in time. Which isn’t a criticism - as that is all a capitalist is permitted to focus on - making money in the present time. |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:11 AM Author: Salmon Hyperventilating Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230816) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:38 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse Threads like these help remind me how truly insane XO is.
If XO was around in the 1960s The King and I would be Jew anticolonialist garbage. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:42 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Whatever do you mean? I gave it a fair try, but it was shite. I'm sure it sounds good to people who have a tin ear for music and don't know anything about rap or history, or are just easily programmed by social desirability bias. That's fine for you, I'm not going to your piss-orgy to smack the gallon-jug out of your hands, I just don't think it's watchable.
That you'd compare it in quality to The King & I says it all: you have no taste. That's fine! |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:49 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse You’re straight up lying in this thread. You say you made it ten minutes in before you quit, but you’re complaining about lyrics later in the musical. 10 minutes isn’t even three songs deep. The really weighty parts are in the second act. And some of the best songs are further in. So you either are falsely trying to be way above it all or didn’t watch enough to have a valid opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227136) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:57 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness What the muddled rejoinder, my good man. On the one hand, you say I'm lying. But I watched until the scene where a multiracial group of females are going to town in NYC and z-snapping about the Second Declaration of Independence for Women. The defects I point out were all evident by that point. Where's the lie?
You also state that the "weighty parts" and "best songs" are "further in." But, having taste, I already watched more than enough to know that no amount of magic later on could save such a shitpile.
I know that, in your world, someone saying they watched a bit of Thor 4: Black Asgardians Matter Forever and turned it off is akin to storming out of the first-run performance of Hamlet at the Globe Theater on the grounds that it can't hold a candle to Sophocles, but like I said, it's ok. You're permitted to have your (wrong, insipid) opinions. And I mine. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:00 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse Then you watched more than ten minutes. It’s just very doubtful that you could hold Rodgers & Hammerstein in high regard and conclude that Hamilton is devoid of artistry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227179) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:06 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness And yet here I stand. I love musical theater; this past year, I taught one of my girls to sing "Old Fashioned Wedding" with me (from Annie Get Your Gun), it's 180. I have the original cast recording of "Assassins".
My guess is you just don't know much about rap and syncopation, and are blind to the kitsch aspects. So you've been snookered by Miranda and his routine. That's fine; not everyone can have taste. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:00 AM Author: Cracking yarmulke You're the liar! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227178) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:01 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness It's just a perverse charge. I think he wants to imply that, in reality, I ardently watched every second and loved it, but felt compelled to heap dispraise on it on xo for clout, or something. I hate to psychologize, but I have to suspect this is projection. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227181) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:03 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse You said you turned it off after 10 minutes but complain about a song 25 minutes in. Which is also the 5th song of nearly 50. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227190) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:09 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness I'm ex-biglaw so my estimate of hours is at times off. But sure, if you say it's 25m then it's 25m. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227212) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:10 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse So you ADMIT that you’re a LIAR! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227216) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:12 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Sure, you got me. Very effective cross. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227223) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:12 AM Author: Salmon Hyperventilating Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230819) |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 9:13 AM Author: Excitant Sweet Tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45243413) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:39 AM Author: Crawly menage XO poasters always claim they refuse to watch some piece of shitlib art yet there are dozens and often hundreds of poasts carefully dissecting key plot details and lines. These guys are extremely online and LOVE consuming pop culture (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230901) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:44 AM Author: rose senate musicals are kitsch at best. all of them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227122) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 9:58 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Perfect description. It's kitsch but too self-important and over-produced to be good camp.
*edit: the above is re Hamilton, you edited it to be about musicals in general. Why, what about MEET ME IN ST LOUIS or ASSASSINS or SOUTH PACIFIC -- oh, wait. |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 11:34 AM Author: Abusive Dilemma Mad-dog Skullcap It wasn't and isn't? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227491) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:12 AM Author: Salmon Hyperventilating Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230818) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:39 AM Author: curious claret clown Never seen it and no desire to. You automatically know someone is a liberal if they start talking about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227302) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 10:49 AM Author: Light Crusty Rigor cr. at the same time, i appreciate AA's posting itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227329) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:12 AM Author: Salmon Hyperventilating Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230820) |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 9:16 AM Author: Excitant Sweet Tailpipe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45243425) |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 9:27 AM Author: fuchsia lettuce library (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45243488) |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 9:28 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness Thanl. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45243495) |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 6:26 PM Author: Salmon Hyperventilating Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45246822) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:23 AM Author: fuchsia lettuce library (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230857) |
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Date: September 25th, 2022 11:52 AM Author: Comical heaven It's unwatchable because the music is SPS from start to finish. Over the course of the entire musical, there are perhaps 60-90 seconds of pleasant/enjoyable music. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45227576) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 12:13 AM Author: Primrose goal in life really tough guy It’s fairly accurate in following the book it was based on imo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45230823) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 9:40 AM Author: Stirring Bespoke Depressive Meetinghouse Cr. He really managed to get a ton of detail in the musical, including verbatim parts of some texts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5199127&forum_id=2#45231582) |
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Date: September 26th, 2022 10:12 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness I just read the book (Chernow), as well as Washington by the same author and a few others (like Jefferson by Meachem). Already in the first few lines of the first song there were several inaccuracies (e.g., it's not true Hamilton didn't know his father; his mother wasn't a whore, etc.)
Of course, the greater and more material flaw is the anachronism of imposing modern crazed progthink onto the worldview of someone like Hamilton.
"The SECOND Declaration of Independence is gonna be for the women, Y'ALL! Slaves be the true founders! Hamilton was really at heart a magical negro immigrant!"
It is just laughable. |
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Date: September 27th, 2022 11:56 PM Author: Primrose goal in life really tough guy I don’t think the song says that he didn’t know his father- that he was a bastard. He was born out of wedlock. His father left his mom when he found out that she had never been divorced from the first dude, hence the whore allegation.
Hamilton was called a creole bastard by Adams. He did ignore the whole anti-immigrant streak Hamilton developed after the revolutionary war.
Hamilton and his gay homo (potential) buddy Laurens were anti-slavery nuts together.
His sis-in-law, whatever her name was, was sort of a modern woman marrying a rich dude and having a fancy friendship with Hamilton from afar. I dunno, I thought it was pretty close overall. |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 8:55 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness I agree that it included a lot from the book. The picture it paints is still fundamentally misleading and anachronistic.
For example, Hamilton married into a slaveholding family and bought slaves himself. He married $$$. It's true Hamilton was on the abolitionist side for the founding fathers -- so was Washington. Hamilton also supported the 3/5ths compromise. The real issue is that the slavery question just wasn't as important, or as important in the way, as modern Black ethnonarcissists and their lib enablers think it was. [The refrain is "founding father without a father," btw, but Hamilton exchanged letters with his dad -- it's misleading.]
The Schulyer sisters lived upstate, so they doubtful went to NYC very often. And they weren't z-snapping Beyonce style you-go-girl modern feminists---the idea is just silly. (And they had brothers!) It's anachronistic to read about how the Schulyers were independent-minded and then decide this must mean they were rapping about how Jefferson was a Scrub or something. Simple-minded pap. Offensive. |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 9:06 AM Author: aphrodisiac ticket booth I made an earnest attempt to watch it as well. i had to shut it off because it was just tiring and i could feel myself becoming more and more agitated.
Lin-Manuel Miranda casting himself in the lead despite being an objectively bad performer seemed really egregious and distracting. I couldn't get past that.
I was surprised to learn he wrote a lot of the music for moana, which i think has some of the best songs in entire disney catalogue. |
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Date: September 28th, 2022 9:27 AM Author: laughsome hall messiness The Moana songs are great. Maybe LMM shot his load with it?
Fully agree about him casting himself as the lead. Perhaps worse, it's simply bad casting, irrespective of his lack of performance talent. Self-indulgent. |