Date: September 2nd, 2026 1:01 AM Author: Slippery milky point
You can tell they didn't watch the trial at all. Yeah in two non lawyer non educated pundits opinions the insanity plea shouldn't exist and if you lose your mind and commit a crime you should be burned at the stake? OK buddy. This is turning back the clock 400 years. Yeah let's just forget the legal process and administer the King's Justice.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:16 PM Author: Richard Ames
tyft. LMAO at some people on here, including self-professed "extremely right wing" people being like "um ackshually the insanity defense is legitimate and the evidence warrants it."
Uhh, ok, how about we PERMANENTLY REMOVE this insane woman from society instead of acting like faggots and scratching our proverbial beards.
Date: September 3rd, 2026 6:41 PM Author: Richard Ames
I say this without knowing any details of the case...but I have no confidence whatsoever that a woman will be kept in a mental institution for any truly prolonged period of time. Just no faith at all.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 1:45 AM Author: Slippery milky point
I just think there's reasonably doubt and the Commonwealth did not prove that she understood her actions or could control them. She was by all accounts a nice, normal person who snapped. It could happen to anyone. We have no idea why people go insane. I don't think this was a situation at all where she didn't feel like being a mom anymore or the pressure of motherhood just got to her. I think she had a brain bug that activated 4 months after giving birth and she reached out to psychiatric professionals and they did a horrible job at understanding her case. I think they didn't listen to her or grasp the situation. The pills made her worse. I think we've all known somebody who went on meds and it made them worse.
The prosecution completely goofed in their opening statements and failed to prove several major pillars of their original case. I think it should have been bifurcated from the beginning. The prosecution only had two cudgels they wielded over and over. Cruelty and premeditation. They had no answers for her mental state. They got blown out by a lot of witness testimony. You're either mad as hell and ignored the evidence or if you paid attention to the trial, you know there's reasonable doubt.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:11 AM Author: Slippery milky point
Her googling how to kill the kids was never presented at trial. She did search for suicide and cures for sociopathy and shit.
She obviously premeditated sending Patrick out so he would be gone a while. But also Pat would randomly go skiing and leave her alone with the kids for the weekend. She could have easily done it then but she was probably too loopy to foresee the eventuality of her being alone with them.
You need to watch Dr. Reznik's testimony. This is the leader in the field of criminal psychiatry, so much so that the prosecution experts all cited his work. He's the GOAT at this shit. Believe him or not but he's the most prestigious expert in the field.
He talks extensively about psychosis and how it manifests. It's a difficult subject because little is known about it in general. But Reznik testified she had delusion beliefs that she could not unthink. She felt a powerful force overcome her that she needed to kill herself and that she had to protect the kids in Heaven before she could die.
Believe whatever you want but there's a lot of evidence that she was not in her right mind. Testimony about her beliefs include contradictions and falsehoods, but not about things not material to the crime. Instead, this can be taken as evidence that she was psychotic at the time.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:39 AM Author: Slippery milky point
She didn't ever have an urge to kill Pat. She just wanted him gone from the house so she could kill the kids so she could die. Her plan was always to die but she couldn't leave the kids here on Earth without her.
She could have easily waited for his next ski trip but I believe she lacked the foresight for that.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:42 AM Author: Slippery milky point
She probably still is suicidal but she lives in a state mental hospital where she's on suicide watch all the time. Ironically if she's acquitted she just stays where she is. But I assume that if she was let free and went off her meds she probably would try and kill herself again. So she's probably going to be locked up in the nuthouse forever. This entire trial is about whether it's life in prison or life in the state sanitarium. It's life either way.
Date: September 8th, 2026 1:02 AM Author: Fishy Adventurous Property
"She obviously premeditated sending Patrick out so he would be gone a while. But also Pat would randomly go skiing and leave her alone with the kids for the weekend. She could have easily done it then"
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:13 AM Author: Slippery milky point
I'm not going to debate why the insanity plea exists but as many criminal lawyers covering this case have said, every defense attorney considers the possibility of the insanity plea in every case. It is rarely viable.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:24 AM Author: Slippery milky point
It comes down to the facts and evidence presented at trial, and whether or not you believe the expert witnesses. These hot button arguments don't just exist on social media, they exist in a court of law. I've said why I believe in Lindsay's insanity defense. Karmelo's attorneys never alleged it. If it came out in trial then I would comment on it. I can only weigh in on the facts and evidence of the case. I don't recall what defense, if any, was presented by Karmelo's defense counsel, but from what little I remember it was not substantial. It basically amounted to "I dindu nuffin."
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:28 AM Author: Slippery milky point
What? I don't even understand this critique but I can elaborate if you want. I cited the preeminent leader in the field. I believe his testimony. I can't argue it as well as he can, I'm not a doctor.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:37 AM Author: Slippery milky point
I'm not an expert on psychiatry. It is unfalsifiable but our national leader in the field believes it and that has given me peace to believe it. Google Dr. Phillip Resnick. He worked on countless high profile cases. Dahmer, unabomber, Andrea Yates, Casey Anthony. This dood is a genius. So yeah maybe I can't explain it but you should watch his testimony. He has interviewed the most deranged killers and studied them. He has come out for both sides depending on the trial. He is not known to lie or make shit up. His reputation is gold and if he believes it I can believe it.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 2:49 AM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Countless experts in psychiatry would testify that Karmelo was not in control of himself and could not resist his impulses. The circumstances show he had even less control and behaved completely erratically. Are you willing to let oeople like Karmelo off so long as a professor testifies they weren't in control? Surely you realize there's no shortage of academics that would do so.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:03 AM Author: Slippery milky point
Definitely a huge factor here. Prosecution made a major misstep in arguing she faked her suicide. On retrial they will say the suicide attempt was real but that doesn't justify killing your kids. The prosecution benefits majorly in a retrial. There were so many mistakes they could have cleared up. They might get a conviction next time.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:05 AM Author: elite international law enforcement agency
can u do a literature review of similar case by schizophrenia/postpartum/low iq ppl because i feel like schizophrenia and low iq easier to see the guy cannot know right or wrong postpartum u just got thru so much its harder to see
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:09 AM Author: Slippery milky point
There was a random guy in like Oklahoma who killed his friend and he won on an insanity plea. Some shrinks testified he was autistic af and not capable of human emotion. It was really shocking that he was acquitted lol. He brutally set up and murdered his friend in cold blood and got off on the insanity plea because jurors believed he was a sociopath. I doubt Nick and Matt Walsh knew anything about that case when they rant about how this is all about women and accountability.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:01 AM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
I'm asking you why you'd trust the experts in this case but not others even though there is even more evidence they had no ability to resist their impulses.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:05 AM Author: Slippery milky point
Link to evidence in the Karmelo trial that he was not mentally sane or in control? You bring up countless shrinks who would testify. Not one testified. I go case by case here. Show me the relevant testimony. You can't demand I debate you about testimony that wasn't presented. Lol
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:06 AM Author: elite international law enforcement agency
he saying its unfair because rich white lady has money to hire shrink to say whatever can be contorted to the situation. the similitude is that eveyone is crazy impulse during violence
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:08 AM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Right, so it's about sympathy for the accused and believing they aren't a threat to the public. It has nothing to do with whether they lost control over themselves, it's whether you think they'll reoffend.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 8:59 AM Author: spruce passionate casino karate
i haven't followed this trial at all, but cons very often fall into black and white thinking where everything is either "good" or "bad." it's better in most cases than lib "well everything is relative," but it leads to takes like matt walsh's and whatever NF is saying (haven't seen nick's takes, but i have seen walsh poast a few things on the twitter about this case).
i'll also add that i don't really care what happens to this lady because she killed her kids. maybe she was clinically insane but she can just die for all i give a fuck.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 9:12 AM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Libs succumb to it just much these days, hence activists saying anyone who thinks shes criminally responsible is a misogynist.
The internet amps up these radical positions which eventually normalizes them, which often provokea reaction from the other side, leading to a vicious cycle. Libs see some people being misogynistic, so they anyone who disagrees a misogynist, which radicalizes more hinged guilymos, which radicalizes more hinged insanemos, and before you know it its retards scuffling.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 11:01 AM Author: Slippery milky point
They're just being hardos. Hannity, Grace Kelly, Megyn Kelly. There's a pile on about how anyone who kills their kids should fry no matter what. But they're not looking at the evidence.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 11:05 AM Author: Richard Ames
I have not followed it at all because it is obviously a horrible and sad situation. That every pundit feels a need to have a "take" on it beyond "this is a horrible situation and saddens me deeply" is nuts. That women are out making this some cause-of-the-moment is also sick and evidence that smartphones need to be collectively destroyed.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 11:06 AM Author: Slippery milky point
People on both sides are tarding out about it. I'm sure the women wearing pink outside the courthouse are retards. But so are the right wing pundits saying ignore the evidence, burn the witch.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:34 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Do you think it's possible for a reasonable person to consider the evidence and be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that she's criminally responsible?
Date: September 2nd, 2026 3:44 PM Author: Slippery milky point
At this point, yes. I do.
However, I still believe there is reasonable doubt in the case that the Commonwealth presented. But I don't begrudge jurors who felt a different way.
Hung jury is understandable. I don't think you will ever get a unanimous verdict on this set of facts. Some of the facts of the case clearly go against the defendant.
To be clear, the right wing pundits I have heard have no knowledge of the trial, in the same way that Candace Owens has no knowledge of the Tyler Robinson trial. I am calling out pundits, not jurors.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 4:09 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Gotcha. I just wanted to clarify that you didn't think anyone who thinks she's guilty is "ignore evidence, burn the witch."
Much closer cases have reached a verdict. This one is fairly simple and just boils down to the question of whether you think she was legally insane. Success rates of securing a verdict go up in a second trial as both sides hone in on their strategy. Guess we'll see, I think a lot will depend on what the jurors say about their deliberations. For example if it turns out there was only one holdout against guilty they're not offering her anything, if it's the opposite they may be more willing to negotiate a plea. I don't think there's any chance they drop charges on a triple homicide after all the work that's already been done.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 4:35 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Yeah when I first heard about the case the insanity defense seemed like a hail mary. I might be wrong about that but I get the sense they didn't expect this to blow up into a referendum on post partum psychosis and will be prepared to focus more on that if there's a retrial.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:06 PM Author: Slippery milky point
I would hope that on retrial a future judge would grant the defense motion for a bifurcated trial. That way Lindsay can admit to the material facts and the jurors don't have to sit through all the emotional testimony from first responders about finding the dead children. Obviously the Commonwealth fought hard to keep this evidence in the trial because their main tactic was to bully the jury with the heinous and despicable acts of the crime. I think the judge was right to deny the motion and leave the facts in on the first trial but now that it's so established I would hope we could have a bifurcated trial where they just call all the shrinks and they debate her mental state. I think that would be better but obviously people who think she's guilty believe the jury should hear all the awfulness up front.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:24 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
I doubt it. It would be very unusual. Like it or not that's a part of trials. There's no reason she should benefit from the jury being shielded from the reality of the events but not others.
Either juries should witness the weight of what they're deciding or they shouldn't. There's no special reason she deserves a pass.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 6:13 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Sure everything is always on the table, I'm just saying ime this would be extraordinary. When there's this much scrutiny the judge is far more likely to go by the book.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 6:32 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
In every jx I've been in the judge would be the same. It's obviously more efficient for a judge already familiar with the case to handle it. Unless one side thinks her rulings were clearly wrong and motivated by bias, which would be a very serious accusation, I'd expect it to be the same judge.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 11:35 AM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Yeah the fact this is politicized at all is disgusting. This should be a niche local news story. It's not like there's some epidemic of people escaping punishment with an insanity defense.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 4:39 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Ive never experienced a jury being sequestered IRL. It's extremely rare. This doesn't even seem like a case that merits it. Afaik there's very little information that is available publicly but will be excluded from trial.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 4:43 PM Author: checked out chud
what? lmfao
the only reason why this case is noteworthy at all is because the jurors weren't sequestered and therefore the female jurors acquired a social contagion that compromised them and made them unable to impartially judge the case
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:31 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
That's no different than any other noteworthy case. Regardless, it's a matter of fact that sequestering juries is extremely rare. And if your argument is only based on them being "infected" by sentiments of the community you seem to be arguing against trial by jury period. The whole reason we have juries is so that the community decides.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:34 PM Author: checked out chud
damn you "caught me." i was really hoping no one would ever figure out that i'm against trial by jury period, when the "jury of your peers" is a bunch of retards and women going home and being programmed by tiktok for 6 hours every night
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:41 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Arguing that the jury should have been sequestered under the system we have is different from arguing juries or female jurors should be abolished completely. I wasn't trying to "catch you", I was just weighing in on why I think sequesteration is unlikely in the case this thread is about. Nothing you said indicated you're talking about a complete ogerhaul of the justice system, it seemed like you were arguing the judge erred under the system we have.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 5:51 PM Author: checked out chud
yeah i'm joking
fwiw i oppose trial by jury in principle, but if we're going to have it, juries need to be sequestered for every trial of any real consequence (felony+ i suppose)
Date: September 2nd, 2026 6:00 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
Big risk of this leading to juries being coerced, i.e. they'll reach a verdict they otherwise wouldn't have just so they can return to their families. 99.9% of felony trials are NBD and there's near zero risk of the jury being inflienced by media attention. I do agree that cases that get media attention should be seqestered more, but a better solution would be for the jurors to be anonymous to the public in those cases.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 7:03 PM Author: queensbridge benzo
what the prosecution failed to explain was her manic need to kill her family within the 15 minutes it was going to take her husband to go to cvs and get pedialyte or something. the urgency makes no sense (given that he had a full time job and didn't work from home), and since there's no history of abuse or her hating her children, the most likely motive was the hallucinations she disclosed long before she relied on them for her defense. and the prosecutors were fucking morons. they were acting like past psychosis is a prerequisite for any future psychosis, even though intermittent psychosis is a symptom of the disease she clearly had (notwithstanding the contrary opinion of the intern who didn't review her medical records).
Date: September 3rd, 2026 5:57 AM Author: queensbridge benzo
does zero goal directed behavior have to be present in order to be found insane? do you have to be foaming at the mouth and unaware that pulling a trigger will cause a gun to fire? i'm just saying the urgency and her history of hallucinations suggest a voice was screaming "DO IT NOW BITCH!"
Date: September 3rd, 2026 10:44 AM Author: Slippery milky point
It's obviously possible that she was psychotic and not in control of her actions. That being said the timeline objectively hurts the defendant. It would be much easier to prove to a jury that she was nuts if we didn't need Dr. Resnick's testimony about what is possible in psychosis and if so much planning and accuracy and timing didn't go into the murders. So while yes it's possible, the timeline makes it harder for any random person on the jury to understand. That's why they've been debating it for over 30 hours back there. Some jurors can't get to not guilty.
Date: September 5th, 2026 12:01 AM Author: queensbridge benzo
i knew it was the hardest thing for the jury to get past, which is why i brought it up. if this person who hallucinates had emptied her checking account, they'd probably doubt her sanity if she gave all of her money to scientologists despite the fact that she was able to find her checkbook.
Date: September 5th, 2026 12:04 AM Author: Slippery milky point
A lot of testimony went into whether a person who is nuts can act not nuts. One might even say the entire trial came down to this. There were like 6 witnesses and about a week of testimony just on this aspect alone. It was not simple or easy for anyone to understand or come to a consensus on.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 9:04 PM Author: Slippery milky point
The timeline of the murders 100% was the biggest problem for the defense to overcome. That someone so crazy could also plan it out and execute it. And pick up the phone when Patrick called from CVS and act like nothing was happening.
Apropos of benzo to zero in on the worst point for the defense and claim that actually that's the real reason that proves she's innocent. Ljl at benzo.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 9:22 PM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
He did this in your last Clancey thread too iirc. Here I am trying to be a thoughtful moderate and every time he barges in with evidence super favorable to the prosecution but presents it as if it's a slam dunk for the defense.
Date: September 2nd, 2026 11:03 PM Author: Slippery milky point
I think on retrial even if the prosecution improves substantially the defense is still going to hit enough home runs to cause several jurors to dig in on NGRI. Reddington is deeply dug in here. I think the odds of any jury in this case having less than 4 hardliners for Lindsay is essentially zero. So bring it on then I guess?
Date: September 7th, 2026 11:48 PM Author: Slippery milky point
He got downgraded to just mostly right after this one. Ironically gunneratttt spent 4000 subthreads accusing me of being a blind follower of Fuentes with no thoughts of my own but here I am breaking with him. When do I get my apology card?
I also don't think there's anything inherently evil about the Jewish religion.
Date: September 8th, 2026 1:09 AM Author: Fishy Adventurous Property
what an important thing to take a stand on. oh nicky, i'm not going to let you fuck my ass tonight because i'm not your bitch. see you tomorrow night, though!
Date: September 8th, 2026 9:55 AM Author: Accurate at predicting vs Measures of probability (gunneratttt)
When I said it you were adament he was right about everything and cited him like gospel, so when I said it it was true. I also predicted that he'd inevitably disappoint and you'd glom onto a new savior.