Date: January 7th, 2022 12:47 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
After learning more about it, I do think its a negative for society and we would be better off basically restricting it/taxing the hell out of it so that it isn't used as a store of value or anything yet.
Date: January 7th, 2022 12:50 AM Author: magenta coffee pot
"After learning that I can't easily trade it in my shithole country while others are making millions, which makes me MAF, I do think its a negative for society and we would be better off basically restricting it/taxing the hell out of it so that it isn't used as a store of value or anything yet."
Date: January 7th, 2022 12:53 AM Author: magenta coffee pot
"After learning that I can't easily trade it in my shithole country while others are making millions, which makes me MAF, I do think its a negative for society and we would be better off basically restricting it/taxing the hell out of it so that it isn't used as a store of value or anything yet."
Date: January 7th, 2022 12:55 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
I can easily trade it. Super easy. In fact, one of the largest banks in Thailand just acquired the largest crypto trader here and now there are even bitcoin shops in the mall where you can buy it.
Date: January 7th, 2022 12:59 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
Thats horrible. Why cant you or others just be subjective? I made a darn good income for where I live and COL, but I openly admit to people here its because TH is retarded and TH should be better about certain things, which would actually cause me to lose my job/income.
Date: January 7th, 2022 1:02 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
You think you will buy things with bitcoin? I dont mean trade bitcoin for dollars to buy things, I mean the medium of exchange will be crypto and not fiat money
Date: January 7th, 2022 1:06 AM Author: magenta coffee pot
No, I think that the VR metaverse is coming your way VERY soon, and that the only way to own things in the VR metaverse will be via blockchain.
This is not the only use for crypto. Look up BetDex. Look up RNDR. Even think about the idea of decentralized finance - the idea that you can get a loan not from a bank but from a decentralized group of people.
Date: January 7th, 2022 1:14 AM Author: magenta coffee pot
First, only a small portion of my poast had anything to do with DeFi.
Second, here's the thing, people use it. To borrow and lend crypto. Today. Extensively. I have to imagine that there must be a reason they do that instead of doing it all via USD. I wonder what that could be? Hmm.
Date: January 7th, 2022 12:54 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
It takes up a shitload of electricity for what I think is zero value, making it bad for consumers and the environment.
I also think its basically a ponzi scheme that will never be used for anything. I have heard zero value actually from it and no one would actually buy it except for the opportunity to sell it to someone else for a higher price. There is no value or nothing there. Its all just a sham.
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:13 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
i could go into this in depth, but i would say you are operating with old notions.
this may not be persuasive, but if you are interested do searches on crypto energy consumption and there are the two sides. note particularly the dates of the information.
with that said, there are various energy touchpoints in crypto as there are with any industry. and all actors are incentivized to get the cheapest and most efficient energy possible in order to reduce overhead. one of the main avenues of that is monetizing surplus energy by capturing their value at the source of production. ie--rig at the source to eliminate need to transport. that is but one way efficiencies are rewarded by crypto. renewable energy and crypto will go hand in hand and actually will likely accelerate renewable energy adoption via profit motive in a way other technologies have not been able to just yet (cars, etc). it's really an interesting rabbit hole if you are genuinely concerned about the proverbial "bitcoin boiling the ocean" problem that was a mainstream meme (probably planted by vested interests).
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:16 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
That is why I said stop it from being used for now. I never said ban it or make it illegal. The fact is now right crypto is a net negative on society from a environment and electrical situation.
btw we dont need crypto to accelerate a move to renewables, we already are on a path where producing RE isnt the issue but rather storage and transmission are the key issues and using electricity on crypto does nothing to solve either
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:19 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
re: storage and transmission. exactly. and crypto provides a solution for that to some degree, but not at full scale. this problem however isn't crypto's problem, it's the energy industry's problem to solve and it helps to bridge some of that gap.
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:26 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
i mentioned it above. you capture not the energy itself but what it's net result is...the value of it and that value is in itself portable.
i'm not being an asshole when i say this: go dig around on the topic. michael saylor talks about it a bit and there are others. there is an indian guy and i feel terrible but i really couldn't remember his name even if i tattooed on my forehead but i watched him really break the situation down. the tldr is the energy consumption problem is not really a problem. we have abundant surplus energy in the world. the problem--and this is an energy industry problem--is getting it to places that have energy demands that exceed their supply. capturing surplus energy value at the source solves a lot of the loss revenue from the supplier side, but doesn't do anything for those with energy needs. but they really are distinct problems that may come to a head to provide mutual solutions at some point.
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:28 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
so... crypto will take solar power generated in Arizona and have it sent to New York without using transmission lines? Because the power demanded in NY is actually just the result of a crypto code?
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:33 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
not the energy, the value of the energy. electricity is product, a commodity. like i said, and i can tell from your train of thought you already know this, that the issue isn't about energy production, it's about capturing the value. crypto does that. it captures the energy at the source and monetizes what would otherwise be surplus energy. will crypto get energy from arizona to ny to power syracuse? no. it's not some miracle tech from aliens. but it will allow that arizona company to capture some of it's surplus energy (or say energy from a volcano in el salvador) and get value out of it that otherwise would be lost to inability to capture it efficiently.
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:48 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
And yet I can't think of a way where crypto using local RE helps reduce electricity use elsewhere which lacks such RE.
Even if crypto performed work and got a result and such result can then be sent to say NY which then uses less power to get the same work, isn't that just the same as locating data severs and network computers/cloud etc near RE and letting that be accessed/used by areas without RE? I fail to see where crypto helps out in this
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:10 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
you're right, but that's not the goal of the tech to begin. the fundamental opposition was "energy consumption". and i stated that it's going to get more efficient over time just like every tech does. we used to crank cars to get them moving, etc. and i mentioned that part of that efficiency is capturing the value of surplus energy. that is but one inflection point among many. admittedly, i steered the conversation in that direction, but i meant it only as an example of what i think is the larger point. we don't have an energy consumption problem, we have an energy surplus transport and storage problem, that is not a crypto problem, that's an energy industry problem. crypto is not some magic tech. it's merely another step in web tech. and if it's valuable and it strains current capacity, there are monetary incentives to get there if it is to become a large economic force (ie--salvadoran volcanoes).
i think it really boils down to a question we don't have the answer to just yet: will the size of this industry justify the energy consumption. if we think this is a 200T industry in a decade, assuredly so. if it's something that all goes to 0, then no. but even then, maybe it's still justifiable if it spurs innovation in the energy industry to solve the storage/transport problem. COMPARE NASA tech being used to chase the moon eventually becoming better served for consumer use.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:12 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
Well, right now cyprto adds to demand which increases costs and use. Power plants can produce less power in some places and dont. This is one reason China banned mining.
If crypto becomes worth 200T, the world has major issues.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:34 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
i don't know that is even possible. the horses are out of the stables. they're talking about THREE rate increases next year alone and that still wont cut it. we don't really even have a full grapple on what that will do.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:38 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
plus cutbacks on Fed purchases. the free flow of cash will dry up a bit, saving cash instead of spending it will start to have some value, and supply chain issues will be resolved rather quickly for most products. inflation will half from 6% rather quick
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:55 AM Author: controlling a virtual character on a computer
it's not "surplus energy" that crypto is using
where i live, several counties have had to pass new laws directly banning crypto mining because people have overloaded electrical grids with crypto mining operations, trying to take advantage of relatively cheap electricity and driving up prices for others
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:12 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
the mining, which is but a fraction of the tech, really is best served in mining centers close to energy sources (tt6 alludes to this).
and your point leads to a question in the space: how democratizing is a tech that requires large mining facilities that cannot be sustained by individuals? it's a conundrum, but not one they don't talk about.
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:39 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
but they don't make sense. i'm willing to hear it out, but tt6's objection is about energy consumption and that's been disproven.
iirc, your objection seems centered around cryto currencies and their viability. this is a fairer objection but really only seems to capture what probably will be but a small part of the entire ecosystem of uses for the technology.
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:51 AM Author: controlling a virtual character on a computer
how has the energy consumption concern been "disproven?" crypto is essentially the conversion of useful electricity into completely worthless abstractions that don't even exist lol. not only that, but every crypto currency is a straight up pyramid scheme
the only legitimate argument in support of crypto is that it gives dissidents some degree of financial independence from the evil totalitarian globalist regime. this is an argument i can accept and agree with. but when most people argue against crypto, they're arguing against it In Principle, and so they aren't considering stuff like this that isn't intrinsic to crypto
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:00 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
fair critique, and like i mentioned to tt6 who is fairly engaging me upthread, the monetization of surplus energy is an incentive. whether one considers it worthless or not is really about values. if you can make a bunch of money on whatever it is, selling pet rocks, then it has value.
with that said, the crypto headwind is bizarre in that the way to justify the existence of this industry is only in the highest moralistic motives. we don't require this for ANYTHING else. by those standards damn near nothing would justifiably exist. and it makes one wonder where these ideas come from. what are the priors that make crypto--in the most cynical way possible can be described as a mutual risk pyramid scheme with assumption of that risk--have to stand up to these high hurdles and not everything else? is it because it fundamentally challenges the high barriers of entry for a financial system that we all agree accumulates power in the hands of a global elite? i'm not accusing you of that, but it's something to consider broadly.
what other industry faces this strange headwind? why? we live in states that eat off of every vice imaginable--legalized whores, addicting people to online sports gambling, lottery, alcohol, tobacco, weed, all kinds of shit--but crypto has to justify its existence? and that's the only reasonable argument for its existence? wut?
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:05 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
You are assuming a money value (USD, etc) to crypto just because others right now will pay for it. But you don't justify crypro's value in any way.
And I am sorry, but you are wrong. Every industry produces value outside of say gambling which is the closest industry I can think of compared to crypto. Other industries create value because they satisfy wants or needs. No want or need is being satisfied by crypto, rather it is transfers of wealth with no real purpose but does include a cost. Therefore making it a net loss for society as a whole.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:17 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
this gets to the core of your critique then. you question its social value. by that argument then most entertainments would fail including a couple you indulge in. we know interacting with technology satisfies dopamine interactions. be it video gaming, video gambling, or watching your shib run. your imputing a value add on something that needn't require it for existence. we don't require it of any other industry. porn, which is VERY MUCH a net negative, continues to exist. gambling, which destroys families and has attendant other social ills attached to it, not only exists but is propped up by our governments. even if the lowest common denominator is "it's like gambling" then by definition you've already given it ample raison d'etre.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:21 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
No. I question its value and I don't try to measure value in a moral way. If someone wants to watch naked ladies dance and they pay for that, fine a want was met and value was created for that person.
However, with "money", you cannot say a want was met cuz they got more money or that their money increased. For financial assets, value needs to be created based on the ability of those assets to solve *real* wants/needs in exchange for money.
Also, gambling I would say is also a net loss to society, same as crypto.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:33 AM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
holup, so money which is used to do all the things you mention evades review? money cannot function on the same plane of analysis? see the gordian knot you just tied?
but, for argument's sake, let's say that financial assets need to be treated differently than everything else, the analysis still fails. what a real want or need is completely contingent on the demand for that desired thing. some people wanna trade X for money and that demand is there. be it baseball cards or crypto punks. if the demand dries up, THEN the need is no longer real. otherwise, the demand is real even if people make it up. that's how everything is. we didn't know we wanted campbell's soup until that guy invented it and it was marketed towards them.
same with crypto, we really have only scratched the surface of what the use cases are. if you're my age, the idea of playing a video game you purchased and then spending money IN that game to get items sounded like some retard shit. but here we are. and if, say, solana or avalanche allows for you to have cross game currency to do that thing and move that item you purchased from one game to another than MAYBE there is big value in that rail. among a lot of other use cases, etc. or you buy tokenized access to a fan community that exists in the metaverse that has retail space, a downtown, where you can exchange only with vendors who get retail in that metaverse, that network will have value people will want to access for a type of currency. will it be fiat to crypto? at first, sure. but who knows what's next.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:37 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
The trading of baseball cards does not use more electricity than some countries. If it did, it would also fall in the net negative category.
I never said to ban crypto, I said to stop/limit its use until it can be used in a productive way to justify its costs.
No one has an issue with World of Warcraft having its money so peolpe can buy upgrades to their account (I honestly dont know if they use their own money or not) but its cost is low and it serves a purpose. For now, crpyto doesnt really have a use and yet has a huge cost.
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:25 AM Author: controlling a virtual character on a computer
i don't have a problem with crypto or think it should be banned. my criticisms of it are in principle only
if we had an otherwise perfect society, we would want to ban crypto in that case. but in our present day world? crypto is....extremely, extremely far down in our list of problems and societal ills, and not only that, but it actually does serve a useful function (allowing dissidents to transfer and store wealth)
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:20 PM Author: Chestnut Quadroon
this is confusing logic to me tbh. in a perfect society, we would ban crypto? what else would be banned in this perfect society? it's a perfect society, by definition there would be no demand for anti-social things.
let's dig a little here: its utility is that it funds dissidents. what makes those people dissidents and not domestic terrorists? who decides that? when do we become dissidents? see where i'm getting at?
Date: January 7th, 2022 3:00 PM Author: controlling a virtual character on a computer
crypto has no intrinsic value. it serves no constructive purpose to society. the closest equivalent to what crypto actually is is unregulated gambling. it's anti-social and destructive
if we had a real society, i would support its ban by law. but since we don't, and we instead live under a totalitarian regime, i support the existence of crypto because it happens to provide a lot of positive utility in our current situation
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:35 AM Author: adventurous home mediation
at least FLW has a philosophical reason for rooting against crypto. in your case, it just seems like sour grapes because you missed out on all these GAINZ
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:44 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
ummm. Did you even read why I oppose it? And when SOL was $250 I didnt care if it went up or down. Now its less than $150 and suddently I am mad about missing out no gainz? Jesus the retards here
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:47 AM Author: adventurous home mediation
yeah man i was totally talking about clitdick gains from 150 to 250 and not you missing out on buying when it was in the single digits/teens. you're the typical crypto midwit who thinks his opinion matters when you have no expertise to speak of
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:54 AM Author: adventurous home mediation
you probably weren't even aware of SOL until it first crossed $100 towards the end of summer 2021. how could you be mad at something you had no knowledge of?
Date: January 7th, 2022 2:57 AM Author: bonkers whorehouse
I have been here for years and knew of SOL since it was more than $20 as a shitload of poasters here were talking about how they doubled and tripled their money
Date: January 9th, 2022 11:25 PM Author: violent vibrant office
I wouldn’t know. I’ve made an incredible amount of my own $ and just let the family $ slide and let GROW. What’s it like being a pathetic lonely sexpat poor idiot?
Date: January 9th, 2022 11:05 PM Author: violent vibrant office
I’m married. “Your family” is a thai hooker using you as an ATM for her and her family. You’re a loser sexpat in a country where you’ll never belong. Lol
Date: January 9th, 2022 10:06 PM Author: Unholy grizzly new version
Also, I can't help but notice that Hillary Clinton and other deep staters pushing "crypto is evil and BAD for US 'interests' and should be destroyed" (deep state speak for "ability of our kleptocracy to control the world"), which generally increases my support of it dramatically.