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You can still have a normal view of Agency and be realist about Bio functions

Not sure if I conflated this in the prior conversation but t...
Metaphysics is solved
  11/11/26
I agree that realism about biological functions does not by ...
The Penis
  11/11/26
1\. Premise 1: A system has an intention if it represents an...
Metaphysics is solved
  11/11/26
Criticisms of Premise 1: Circularity. The premise defines...
Metaphysics is solved
  11/11/26
These are good objections to fuctionalist theories of intent...
The Penis
  11/11/26
I <3 men
insightful godfather era Andy Garcias & Goldens...
  11/11/26


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Date: November 11th, 2026 2:06 PM
Author: Metaphysics is solved

Not sure if I conflated this in the prior conversation but there are 2 things:

(1) You can be a realist about biological functions or "purposes" of the regulatory sort TP described previously. I.e., you can think the purpose of the kidneys is to filter blood (and not just deterministically respond to gradients); AND

(2) You can think intentions only exist in, and therefore action requires, conscious minds (the "normal" view basically everyone holds).

The independent reality of biological functions are separate from intentions necessary for action. But holding (1) does not mean you get non-conscious intentions for free. I for one think (1) is stupid and I do not adhere to it. But again you can't use (1) to argue against (2).

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5921347&forum_id=2#50250538)



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Date: November 11th, 2026 2:36 PM
Author: The Penis

I agree that realism about biological functions does not by itself establish that nonconscious systems perform actions. I never argued otherwise. I introduced biological purposiveness because you claimed that purposes can’t exist without intentions

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5921347&forum_id=2#50250658)



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Date: November 11th, 2026 3:01 PM
Author: Metaphysics is solved

1\. Premise 1: A system has an intention if it represents an objective and maintains a commitment to achieving it that governs its practical reasoning.

2\. Premise 2: The capacities described in Premise 1 can exist without phenomenal consciousness.

3\. Premise 3: An AI system can, in principle, possess those capacities.

4\. Premise 4: Behavior appropriately caused and guided by an intention constitutes intentional action.

5\. Conclusion: Therefore, an AI system can possess intentions and perform intentional actions without consciousness.

The central philosophical burden falls on Premise 1, which asserts that representational and functional properties are sufficient for intention. Premise 2 asserts that consciousness is unnecessary for realizing those properties, while Premise 3 establishes their possible artificial realization. The argument is logically valid under these premises, but defending Premise 1 requires explaining why the specified functional organization constitutes genuine intending rather than merely simulating it.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5921347&forum_id=2#50250754)



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Date: November 11th, 2026 3:01 PM
Author: Metaphysics is solved

Criticisms of Premise 1:

Circularity. The premise defines intention through representation and commitment, but both concepts may already presuppose intentionality. Representing an objective as something to be achieved seems to involve intending its achievement. The argument must establish what representation and commitment are independently of intention.

Original intentionality. John Searle argues that computational symbols acquire their meaning through the interpretation of conscious agents. An AI system might process representations whose significance derives entirely from human designers. If so, the system's apparent intentions are derived from someone else's intentionality.

The normativity of commitment. Michael Bratman's account of intention involves commitments that impose rational constraints on subsequent practical reasoning. A system that persistently optimizes toward a target might exhibit the same behavioral pattern without being subject to those rational constraints. The objection is that causal persistence toward an objective does not establish genuine practical commitment.

Agency and ownership. An intention must belong to an agent, but the proposed definition does not establish what makes a system the author of its commitments. A system could execute an externally imposed objective through sophisticated planning while exercising no independent practical authority over that objective. The criticism is that implementing a goal and intending it might be fundamentally different relationships.

Practical knowledge. Anscombe's account connects intention with an agent's practical knowledge of what it is doing. This suggests that intending involves a distinctive relationship to one's own activity that may not be captured by computational representations of objectives. An AI system could represent its operations accurately without possessing practical knowledge in Anscombe's sense.

Functional trivialization. If representing objectives and maintaining commitments are defined entirely through causal organization, many ordinary control systems could satisfy the definition. The premise then risks attributing intentions to physical mechanisms whenever their behavior can be described as goal directed. A defensible theory needs a principled threshold for when causal organization constitutes intentional agency.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5921347&forum_id=2#50250756)



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Date: November 11th, 2026 4:02 PM
Author: The Penis

These are good objections to fuctionalist theories of intention but my Theory of Action doesn’t require nonconscious systems to possess intentions in the first place. I’m proposing that intentional action is a particular form of a more general capacity for regulated intervention. So even if all these succeed that still wouldn’t establish that intentions are necessary for Action. Wasn’t your original objection to that last night one of functional trivialization? That I would effectively be making Action indistinguishable from ordinary causation?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5921347&forum_id=2#50250935)



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Date: November 11th, 2026 3:48 PM
Author: insightful godfather era Andy Garcias & Goldens...

I <3 men

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5921347&forum_id=2#50250876)