I take back anything bad I've ever said about them. Wachtell's first-year bonus was a mere $50,000 this year.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1853089)

(EDIT: I think they actually have a California office too.)

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1853219)

$50k in NYC is pretty weak for the world's "most prestigious" firm.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854380)

Keep in mind that the world's most prestigious firm up until two years ago, Cravath, never paid more than a $40k bonus (on a $125k base). Prestige correlates much more closely to partner profits than to associate pay.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854390)

I see your point about prestige and partner pay. However, would you say there's any correlation between prestige and home grown talent? I've always carried around the idea (which may or may not be true) that the most prestigious firms tend not to hire too many laterals. If this is the case, potential associates either figure on making partner, or aren't following the money (because the most coveted students tend to work at the most prestigious firms).

What do the Wachtell's & Cravath's of the world pay in signing bonuses? $10K or so?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854415)

New York firms don't pay signing bonuses, though they'll often pay moving and bar expenses which might add up to $10k.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854433)

any clue as to his undergrad/law school background? was he super smart or something? is it common, do you know?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1871126)

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854467)

I don't know about WLRK, but I have heard Cravath works you a ton. This may just be par for the course in NYC BIGLAW, but given the prospect of taking home $155,000 for 2400 hours work, versus $135,000 for 2100 hours, I imagine a good many might take the latter (though the per hour is slightly lower, the marginal pain in the ass of those extra 300 hours might not justify the extra $0.50 per hour rate). I guess the extra $/hr might still be a deciding factor for some, though that's relentless greed.

Exit opportunities (as well as a host of other things - quality of work, personal satisfaction of working at a presitgious outfit, etc.) might support the decision, but it's still not following the buck.

No signing bonus? This is ridiculous - add that to sharing an office, working more hours, and a depressed salary from a high cost of living, and I'm not sure why people just have to be in NYC. I don't want to hijack this thread, but is Broadway just that awesome?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854485)

But this topic has been debated extensively and stupidly on other threads.

You're right that the best students don't "follow the buck" in the sense that they don't choose a city in which to practice based on the highest pay-per-hour-over-COL ratio. My point was only that the most prestigious firms are also mostly the top-paying firms in an absolute sense, and that, within New York at least, nobody pays more. But obviously Cravath and Wachtell work really hard.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854524)

Money was a factor with me, though not the only one I relied upon. I'm not sure how I would have come out if money & prestige had been in conflict with each other.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854585)

given COL, that's probably a good thing. well, except for texas, which i hear sucks big time.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1871120)

The new boost encompasses Sullivan's 10K extra?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854444)

I read nylawyer.com, which runs short articles on bonuses when they come out (like the SG bonus today), but don't have a link to anything current.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854454)

I guess this renders my post irrelevant. Nevermind.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1854511)

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1871094)

i just hear LA is full of smog and not good-looking.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1871897)

I have heard that NYC blows.

Think for yourself much?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1871789)

When times are really good, companies are doing deals rather than filing lawsuits, said Joe Grinstein, partner at Susman Godfrey, a 50-lawyer law firm in Houston. But when times are bad and things start to fall apart, the lawyers come in.

Earlier this week, Susman Godfrey gave its associate attorneys — the lawyers who aren't yet partners — year-end bonuses ranging from $114,000 to $350,000. That's more than triple the amount they received a year ago.

"Business has been excellent for us this year generally," according to Grinstein, who said that, at a minimum, the bonuses at least equaled the associates' annual salary.

One highlight was settling an antitrust case for its client Novell against Microsoft for $536 million.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1873776)

Do most biglaw associates spend a full 4 years at their first firm?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1879675)

The hours are supposedly long, longer than anyone but Wachtell is what I have heard. But you also don't bill. And the summer program is only 4 weeks long, permitting you to split.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1879668)

i'm a law student splitting the summer between cravath and susman, and i'm originally from Dallas, so i figured i'd add my two cents. it's a long post, but I feel like procrastinating.

Susman's website answers a ton of the questions people are asking--particularly about compensation. Check out http://www.susmangodfrey.com/recruit/recruit_philosophy.html#compensation. The bottom line is that the Texas offices start at $110,000 (LA a bit more), and they typically pay a 20-60% merit-based bonus. This year and also in 2000, they paid a 100% bonus to all associates due to some out-of-the-ballpark cases. If you want details, there's a great article on the susman homepage explaining why amlaw gave them the runner-up award for litigation boutique of the year: http://www.susmangodfrey.com/Articles/TopLitigationBoutiques.pdf. The article explains that this year's big win was the Microsoft / Novell $500 million settlement, which Susman took down without filing any court documents (yes, that's half a billion dollars without filing a complaint). The firm landed an $88m comission, 40-60% of which the partner who ran the case keeps, the rest of which gets distributed to other partners and pays associates (and rent). I believe that in both 2000 and this year, all partners at the firm made over $1 million. And the partnership track is five years, four if you clerk, so some of those partners are only five years out of school. That sure beats BIGLAW NYC.

Susman "bills to keep the lights on," from what I hear, so no, it isn't 100% contingent-fee. The firm has a weekly meeting where lawyers present new business and the firm votes on whether to take a case and how to structure the fees. All lawyers get one vote, and associates vote on everything except partnership and compensation. My sense is that cases are often a blend of billable hours and contingent fee.

From what they say, cases are staffed leanly (typically 1-3 lawyers), and training is basically trial-by-fire, so young associates are asked to perform beyond their capacity for the first two years. In this regard, Susman seems a lot like WLRK--young associates do real work from day one, because the partner/associate ratio is low (34 partners, 28 associates).

I'll let you know at the end of the summer, but my sense is that people at Susman work very, very long hours, certainly as long as BIGLAW NYC, if not longer. But the upside is that associates are working long hours on mostly-contingency cases, and if they win they get paid for it, so they feel like they really own the case. It isn't like they're just billing machines--they work hard because they want to win. One associate told me he did oral argument only a few weeks after he got his bar card in the mail (i.e. fresh out of school), and he argued against the hiring partner of a big texas firm who had recently offered him a job, which he turned down to go to Susman. Had he gone to the big firm (or to NY), he'd have to wait five or six years to do something like that.

so why would anybody NOT want to work at Susman? Because it's in Houston (or, in my case, Dallas). The LA/Seattle offices are very very small (5 / 8 lawyers, respectively), so I imagine it's pretty difficult to get an associate job out there. Don't get me wrong--I love Texas (and the lack of a state income tax and insanely low cost of living are big plusses), but Dallas isn't New York. It's a big city, but it just isn't NYC. The airport is nice--makes it easy to get to the mountains or the ocean or anywhere else in the world, but the city itself is a big flat sprawl, and there isn't much to do but eat and shop and spend money on a McMansion. But then again, if we're comparing Susman to BIGLAW NYC, it doesn't really matter where you go, becuase you'll be working all the time anyway, right?

Almost forgot to talk about Cravath. The draw of a place like that is the training and the exit strategy. Because it's impossible to make partner (0-5 each year, usually ~2 out of an entering class of ~65), they keep getting top talent because they have fantastic training. You're assigned to a parter with another associate or two or three for a 'rotation' of a year or two, and you only take work from that partner, and he/she can't assign work to any associates but you. So if the partner doesn't train you well, then his clients will fire him because you'll be doing a bad job (and he doesn't want to do the work himself, obviously).

I'm not sure where I'll end up after school, but I think a lot of people weighing between NYC and somewhere else where they could make more money try the New York thing for a few years and then head elsewhere when they get tired of the rat race (or want to start a family). That may be my plan, we'll see.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1916621)

Edit: Why is their SA program so short?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1916808)

My guess is that's the main reason. NY biglaw firms always seem to make it difficult to split your summer; only having to do four weeks at Susman probably makes it easier.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=119715&forum_id=2#1922864)