Date: February 28th, 2016 6:31 PM Author: glassy field
Because the "abstinence only" notion is hilariously retarded and ignores human nature. That wasn't even convincing to me when I was dating as a 15 year old, let alone approximately 20 years later when I've seen that it is even more naive than I originally suspected.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:07 PM Author: Godawful Business Firm
no shit dumbass, but should we encourage or discourage this tendency? seems to me in MAYBE 5% of cases is anyone ultimately "better off" with a person giving themselves over to whatever their ego wants so it's grotesque that's what society currently recommends everyone do
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:10 PM Author: glassy field
Pretending to be selfless when you're not helps absolutely no one. It just leads to people acting like assholes and finding justifications for their assholish behavior ("oh, I beat them to DISCIPLINE them and not because I fucking hate being a parent and detest my kids, I'm actually a GOOD person!").
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:31 PM Author: Godawful Business Firm
I understand you are going to take any "anti-selfishness" stance kinda personally but you are warped to the point of delusion if you think it's generally bad for people to aspire to "goodness"
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:34 PM Author: glassy field
I think aspiring to being a good person is great. I just think there's a huge difference between honestly doing that and just making nonsense claims like "I'm a completely selfless person!" and then doing what you want anyway. I've seen that happen a bunch of times IRL with various family members and that is how you get "Eat, Pray, Love" scenarios.
Date: February 28th, 2016 1:01 PM Author: glassy field
I don't get why these articles are bad. Many people aren't cut out for kids and acting like kids are always a good thing causes significantly more harm than good.
Date: February 28th, 2016 1:07 PM Author: glassy field
Are we running out of people or something? Explain why society would be better if everyone just lived to spit out a bunch of kids. These "traditional" attitudes are still prevalent in places like South America, the middle east and Africa and it doesn't seem to be working out too well for them.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:35 PM Author: glassy field
That's fair enough, they're different than you and by definition people different than you come off as strange. Nevertheless, while "strange" they aren't unique, and it is important for those people to understand that their preferences aren't mistakes and that others have felt that way. And if they ignore their preferences they are likely to regret it.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:34 PM Author: glassy field
Trouble is that there is a huge social bias towards the notion that you ought to have children. I'm in this position now myself and the pressure is really immense. People use all the arguments like "it is different when it is your kids" and "you'll love it for sure!" For people that know that they probably shouldn't do this, having some articles reminding them that they really do have a choice and that it isn't for everyone is a good thing.
>> Gianna wrote, "I love my son, but I hate being a mother. It has been a thankless, monotonous, exhausting, irritating and oppressive job. Motherhood feels like a prison sentence. I can't wait until I am paroled when my son turns 18 and hopefully goes far away to college." <<
tl;dr I want the benefits of something without putting in the work that it requires.
This is a common sentiment among women (and some men too). They love their kids, but they don't wanna put in the work to raise them. They want to be attractive, but they don't want to keep their bodies trim or put in the general effort required to look good. They want creative, high-paying jobs, but they think they're entitled to them just because they have a certain degree. Etc, etc.
The reality is, anything in life that is really worth having takes hard work and effort to get it. You can't just separate the benefits from the effort.
Date: February 28th, 2016 5:33 PM Author: chartreuse pit antidepressant drug
there is certainly a subset of women who are not suited to be mothers - it's a gift to their unborn children when they are able to self-identify as such and abstain
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:28 PM Author: Poppy Library
While this is an accurate statement, the article goes well beyond the simple fact that some women make shitty mothers.
It embraces the idea that motherhood is an oppressive prison, an institution in which women lose 'themselves' in every sense, and are forced into routine and subservient labor.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:32 PM Author: glassy field
"It embraces the idea that motherhood is an oppressive prison...and are forced into routine and subservient labor."
For some women it is. That's how you get these "Eat, Pray, Love" types who end up fucking over their families. I'd rather these women avoid marriage and kids rather than fuck over their husbands after the fact.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:37 PM Author: Poppy Library
Again, while true for "some" women, the article attempts to explain this phenomenon as the norm and a healthy viewpoint that should be as accepted as the viewpoint that motherhood is amazing and rewarding.
In fact, it is not a healthy viewpoint and the "some" women make up a small percentage of the population women. These women are sick and likely suffer some kind of mental illness. Is absolutely not normal to dump your 11yo daughter at a firehouse in Nebraska. It just isn't.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:36 PM Author: Topaz Parlor Immigrant
There's a lot of social pressure to have children and so I can understand women who genuinely don't have any maternal instincts trying to strike back by denigrating motherhood. I don't agree with them of course.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:37 PM Author: glassy field
To be fair, I wouldn't say they are "denigrating motherhood" - they're not really saying that only dumb women like being mothers or anything like that. They're just saying that *to them* it seems horrible.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:39 PM Author: Poppy Library
Did you read the article? While it doesn't spell out that 'only dumb' women enjoy being mothers and unconditionally love their children, that is certainly the undertone throughout the piece.
"Please accept that for wealthy white educated women, motherhood is a prison sentence. It is NORMAL to feel this way, ACCEPT this"
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:51 PM Author: glassy field
For some people that is the perspective. That is "normal" insofar as it is a perfectly legitimate way to look at things and it isn't something to be "fixed" or "pushed past." They should just accept that and not have kids.
To understand why that is a reasonable response, you basically have to go through dealing with family pressure to have kids, where people act like not wanting kids means you are completely Charles Manson style insane.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:55 PM Author: Poppy Library
You think it's normal and perfectly legitimate for these women to hate their children, feel imprisoned, and/or dump them in a firehouse in Nebraska @ age 11?
That's like saying 'well for a mass murderer, murder is the norm. That's HIS reality and at least for him that's acceptable behavior. You have to go through his awful childhood to understand HIS perspective'
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:08 PM Author: glassy field
"You think it's normal and perfectly legitimate for these women to hate their children, feel imprisoned, and/or dump them in a firehouse in Nebraska @ age 11?"
I'm more saying that it is perfectly normal to not want to be a parent and not enjoy the typical activities that comprise parenting. Therefore, these people should not have children, not that they should dump them at a public building in Nebraska or just be total dicks to their children (I've never seen the former, but the latter is a significant percentage of parents).
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:11 PM Author: Poppy Library
Well you're limiting the article to sound more reasonable. The article goes into detail regarding the women that already became parents, feel awful because they hate their kids, and goes on to say this is okay, they need to be understood.
My point, more than anything, is that once you're already a mother it's sick and not okay hate your life, your children, and wish them gone.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:14 PM Author: glassy field
Oh I totally agree with your point. But my interpretation of the article focusing on these women is to inform women that all not women are destined to be good mothers, so you should seriously ask yourself if you're in that category. The Nebraska case was given as an example.
The fact is that you have a ton of women that claim to want to be mothers purely due to societal pressure and then absolutely suck at it. We don't want to encourage that.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:52 PM Author: Topaz Parlor Immigrant
Except that the most recent studies do actually show that light alcohol consumption has no effect on the fetus.
However, because its assumed that there are legions of prole drunkard women out there just waiting for the OK to booze it up while pregnant the authorities err on the side of recommending no drinking at all.
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:54 PM Author: Topaz Parlor Immigrant
I don't support taking any unnecessary drugs during pregnancy. But if someone has serious depression and if left untreated they might be a danger to themselves or babby then if they can be treated with no risk of harm then why not?
Date: February 28th, 2016 6:49 PM Author: exciting pontificating forum elastic band
went to mass today and met the mom of a couple of guys I train with. in total they are 11 brothers, mom and dad. and she was serene and warm in a way I haven't seen ever.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:09 PM Author: Bronze national regret
I know a girl like this. She openly says her kids ruined her life. Longs to just be able to go out and shit. She was a big party girl before. She definitely shouldn't have had kids.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:11 PM Author: glassy field
This is really what needs to be more public. Some people shouldn't have kids. Yes, we talk about the drug addicted prostitute, but we should also talk about the "party girl" that has zero maternal instinct as well as other people who would be shitty parents.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:15 PM Author: glassy field
By the way, I absolutely believe that men should be able to "financially abort" their kids at the time of birth (though, not later - unless it turns out not to be their kids). But I also think it is perfectly reasonable for women not to want to have kids either.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:19 PM Author: Bronze national regret
I think the point is that once a woman has kids, it's pretty shitty to openly talk about not wanting them and wanting them to go off to school and shit. At that point you have your kids. Love them and be a good parent. I agree that there's nothing wrong with not wanting kids in the first place, at least IMO. Some people just aren't cut out for it.
Date: February 28th, 2016 7:45 PM Author: Exhilarant green pervert theater stage
"On November 21, 2008, the last day that the safe haven law was in effect for children of all ages, a mother from Yolo County, California, drove over 1,200 miles to the Kimball County Hospital in Nebraska where she left her 14-year-old son."