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LA firms increase PPP in 2005; Gibson, Latham at $1.6m

Quinn - $1.9m (+1%) Gibson - $1.635m (+8%) O'Melveny - $1....
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
How do these figures related to associates? I know a hig...
Fuchsia property gay wizard
  02/05/06
Firms will take a small slice of PPP and give it to associat...
Odious community account
  02/05/06
So a high PPP benefits both partners *and* associates in ter...
Fuchsia property gay wizard
  02/05/06
Yes. Not necessarily. It could just mean the firm had a ...
Odious community account
  02/05/06
Interesting thing about Quinn is that while their 2004 jump ...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
ask greedy la.
Odious community account
  02/05/06
Or it can suggest they're leveraging the hell out of their a...
Sable Skinny Woman Casino
  02/05/06
Exactly. "Windfalls" don't happen in biglaw unless...
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
Well, it's hard to say that without knowing how busy the fir...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Sure, I just meant that "windfall" in biglaw means...
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
This is not really true.
Odious community account
  02/05/06
Educate me.
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
I was at a dinner party last night where a biglaw partner wa...
Odious community account
  02/05/06
I guess that settles it.
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
Meh, its not uncommon is all I'm saying.
Odious community account
  02/05/06
I just don't understand how a windfall is even theoretically...
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
This is just a semantic disagreement.
Charcoal zippy ape
  02/05/06
contingency fees
Concupiscible shimmering telephone piazza
  02/05/06
Wow, somebody didn't read the thread.
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
so shoot me
Concupiscible shimmering telephone piazza
  02/05/06
This board sometimes likes to use PPP as a proxy for firm pr...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Is there a PPP ranking (for all firms, not just LA) that I c...
Fuchsia property gay wizard
  02/05/06
If you have Westlaw, look up last year's AmLaw 100 and AmLaw...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
If PPP is a proxy for prestige, why is Munger so highly rega...
Fuchsia property gay wizard
  02/05/06
This board also likes to use selectivity as a proxy for pres...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
You say that with a pejorative tone, but both are clearly th...
Odious community account
  02/05/06
Even somebody who's been online as long as me has trouble co...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
It was the "this board" part I guess. Sorry.
Odious community account
  02/05/06
I might have been criticizing the board's obsession with fir...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Some more counterexamples are Cahill Gordon and Cadwalader, ...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
See my post below. Cadwalader is probably a good example of ...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
High PPP's aren't necessarily bad for associates and don't n...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
This makes sense. All other things being equal, happy partn...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Whatever statistic you're looking at, your "happy partn...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
I don't see how "good business practices" and &quo...
Sable Skinny Woman Casino
  02/05/06
That would be a fair thing to say. Trying to squeeze extra h...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
Even if it is the optimal level of slave driving, that may n...
Sable Skinny Woman Casino
  02/05/06
I think associates would like to work less for the same sala...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
I wasn't saying that they're out to get the partners. I'm s...
Sable Skinny Woman Casino
  02/05/06
There isn't that much mobility. It isn't good for an associa...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
Here's a link to Bay Area numbers in case anybody missed it:...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
These PPP numbers confuse me. The most common chart I've se...
Vibrant chestnut police squad
  02/05/06
You're missing that that chart is from 2000.
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Haha good point. Where can I see the latest chart?
Vibrant chestnut police squad
  02/05/06
Look up this cite in Westlaw: 8/2005 AMLAW 113
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Thanks. What other charts that show rankings of law firms a...
Vibrant chestnut police squad
  02/05/06
You are probably talking about the American Lawyer's A-List....
Trip peach ceo heaven
  02/05/06
Yeah, AmLaw has its annual A-list: http://www.law.com/jsp/ta...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Thanks guys. Yeah I really don't care whatsoever about pro ...
Vibrant chestnut police squad
  02/05/06
Associate satisfaction is from their annual associates surve...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Revenue per lawyer.
Charcoal zippy ape
  02/05/06
Oh and if you need another random stat, you can check out co...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
The A-list has the categories broken down for every firm in ...
Trip peach ceo heaven
  02/05/06
Yeah, you can't put much stock in high associate satisfactio...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Old numbers?
bat shit crazy menage haunted graveyard
  02/05/06
Hazelrah: Seeing as you're unusually talented at searching g...
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
Haven't heard anything about Wachtell. Somebody (I think zc...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
wachtell had total comp $200K this year - bonuses at $60K.
Cracking Multi-billionaire Sound Barrier
  02/05/06
At 70 hrs/wk vs. 60, that comes out to an extra $5 per hour.
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
hey man, I am not working there.
Cracking Multi-billionaire Sound Barrier
  02/05/06
Isn't it more like $80/hour? 200,000-160,000 divided by 1...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
We're calculating different things. Yours treats the extra ...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Gotcha. By number shows that $5 more per hour not insubstant...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
Yeah, I shouldn't have brushed it off like that. Anybody wh...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Yeah. Look at the political impact/depates that go into a $....
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
I'm not sure too many people would accept working another 10...
confused trust fund
  02/05/06
It's about right, and a little better, because I'd figure so...
pearly senate jap
  02/05/06
Law really does not pay as well as business. This is the ver...
Bossy Crawly Psychic
  02/05/06
and your point is?
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/05/06
The problem is that law firms: 1) bill by the hour, and 2) h...
180 coffee pot genital piercing
  02/05/06
Post-weekend bump.
pearly senate jap
  02/06/06
Educate me. PPP doesn't mean that is what the partner takes...
exhilarant disrespectful marketing idea
  02/06/06
that would be revenue per partner not profits. profits are ...
Cracking Multi-billionaire Sound Barrier
  02/06/06
Do you know if the profits per partner figure just the profi...
Aphrodisiac Site
  02/06/06
i'm pretty sure that PPP is just the whole pot divided by th...
vigorous dark nibblets trailer park
  02/06/06
Almost all lockstep firms allow for some adjustment for perf...
pearly senate jap
  02/06/06
How does the partnership "buy in" get figured?
exhilarant disrespectful marketing idea
  02/06/06
Pretty sure they aren't figured into these numbers.
pearly senate jap
  02/06/06
They can be rather signifcant I believe. I think they are i...
exhilarant disrespectful marketing idea
  02/06/06
Yeah, I believe at many firms, new partners make less than s...
pearly senate jap
  02/06/06
Well I'm glad this thread was helpful to somebody: http://in...
pearly senate jap
  02/11/06
Yeah, i think i've had a discussion on here with that guy be...
Comical Hairless Love Of Her Life
  02/11/06
I would definitely like to see salaries go up. I'm not exac...
pearly senate jap
  02/11/06
Have Milbank, White & Case and Proskauer announced match...
gay jet-lagged gas station
  02/11/06
I believe Milbank has (do they have an hours requirement on ...
pearly senate jap
  02/11/06
Added info on OMM, Paul Hastings, and profits per equity par...
pearly senate jap
  02/22/06


Poast new message in this thread



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:11 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Quinn - $1.9m (+1%)

Gibson - $1.635m (+8%)

O'Melveny - $1.615 (+23%) / $1.515m all partners

Latham - $1.602m (+14%) / $1.400m all partners

Paul Hastings - $1.325m (+13%)

Munger - ~$1.08m (+4%)

Manatt - $1m

Loeb - $926k (+30%)

Sheppard - $785k (+15%)

Allen Matkins - $675k (+16%)

Irell not yet reporting.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1138961110211

http://www.legalweekstudent.net/ViewItem.asp?id=27628

Last year: LA Firms -- 2004 PPPs

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998384)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:26 AM
Author: Fuchsia property gay wizard

How do these figures related to associates?

I know a high PPP is good for partners. But does that conversely mean that a high PPP is bad for associates?

I'm clueless.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998486)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:28 AM
Author: Odious community account

Firms will take a small slice of PPP and give it to associates as their discretionary bonuses.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998492)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:30 AM
Author: Fuchsia property gay wizard

So a high PPP benefits both partners *and* associates in terms of compensation, is that correct?

But doesn't it also mean that the associates were billing more hours than their competetors (to get the PPP so high above the competition)?



(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998507)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:32 AM
Author: Odious community account

Yes.

Not necessarily. It could just mean the firm had a major windfall case that year.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998516)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:33 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Interesting thing about Quinn is that while their 2004 jump in PPP was attributed to a big contingency case(s), they seem to have maintained that PPP this year even without it.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998527)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:36 AM
Author: Odious community account

ask greedy la.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998552)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:34 AM
Author: Sable Skinny Woman Casino

Or it can suggest they're leveraging the hell out of their associates and there's not much hope for them to ever make partner.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998533)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:10 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

Exactly. "Windfalls" don't happen in biglaw unless you're in the rare firm (Quinn, Boies, Susman) that does contingency work. Otherwise, windfall just means the firm was ridiculously busy and thus was leveraging the hell out of each and every associate.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000641)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:29 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Well, it's hard to say that without knowing how busy the firm was the year before -- this increase could just put the firm back at "normal" work levels. Also firms like Gibson and Latham might increase overall PPP if some traditionally slower branch offices (and overseas offices) picked up a lot of new work -- although I guess that usually ends up spilling over to main offices as well.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000780)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:53 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

Sure, I just meant that "windfall" in biglaw means someone was working harder somewhere. It doesn't mean they unexpectedly got a $500 million jury verdict in a products liability case.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000991)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:58 PM
Author: Odious community account

This is not really true.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001035)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:00 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

Educate me.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001046)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:04 PM
Author: Odious community account

I was at a dinner party last night where a biglaw partner was talking about a windfall.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001076)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:15 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

I guess that settles it.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001120)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:19 PM
Author: Odious community account

Meh, its not uncommon is all I'm saying.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001137)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:23 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

I just don't understand how a windfall is even theoretically possible under a billable hours system, unless one office is just totally out of touch with how much another office is working.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001152)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:26 PM
Author: Charcoal zippy ape

This is just a semantic disagreement.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001161)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:30 PM
Author: Concupiscible shimmering telephone piazza

contingency fees

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001176)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:31 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Wow, somebody didn't read the thread.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001178)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:32 PM
Author: Concupiscible shimmering telephone piazza

so shoot me

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001183)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:29 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

This board sometimes likes to use PPP as a proxy for firm prestige.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998504)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:31 AM
Author: Fuchsia property gay wizard

Is there a PPP ranking (for all firms, not just LA) that I can find online?



(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998511)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:32 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

If you have Westlaw, look up last year's AmLaw 100 and AmLaw 200 issues.

EDIT: Here's a cite: 8/2005 AMLAW 113

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998519)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:34 AM
Author: Fuchsia property gay wizard

If PPP is a proxy for prestige, why is Munger so highly regarded on this board? PPP of $1M doesn't seem very prestigious (relatively).

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998537)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:37 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

This board also likes to use selectivity as a proxy for prestige.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998555)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:38 AM
Author: Odious community account

You say that with a pejorative tone, but both are clearly the most empirical measures of prestige.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998562)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:40 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Even somebody who's been online as long as me has trouble conveying tone accurately online. I actually didn't mean it either positively or negatively.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998581)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:41 AM
Author: Odious community account

It was the "this board" part I guess. Sorry.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998588)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:42 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

I might have been criticizing the board's obsession with firm prestige a bit, but I didn't mean anything regarding selectivity as a factor.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998601)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:47 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Some more counterexamples are Cahill Gordon and Cadwalader, both with PPP over $2 million in 2004, but aren't generally regarded as very prestigious on xoxo.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998621)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:55 AM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

See my post below. Cadwalader is probably a good example of a firm that runs a good business and makes smart financial decisions. They own their building.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998680)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:54 AM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

High PPP's aren't necessarily bad for associates and don't necessarily mean a firm is drilling its associates harder.

Some firms are managed better than others. Some firms have lazy old partners getting paid to do nothing. Or they'll have a bunch of high-paid managing partners who don't practice much law. A law firm is like any other business, and it can blow a ton of money due to bad decisions.

A high PPP firm is probably a good thing for associates. Business is stable. Partners doing well and have good work for you and aren't going to leave for another firm. Bonuses aren't likely to be in doubt.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998667)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:07 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

This makes sense. All other things being equal, happy partners are probably good for associates.

Obviously there's a limit to what you can do with any single statistic, but I wonder how you'd interpret revenue per lawyer numbers?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998770)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:14 AM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

Whatever statistic you're looking at, your "happy partners are probably good for associates" is going to hold true.

A firm that is more profitable is probably one with good business practices, not one that squeezes a few more hours out of its associates.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998823)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:16 AM
Author: Sable Skinny Woman Casino

I don't see how "good business practices" and "one that squeezes a few more hours out of its associates" are opposed. Are you saying they've reached the optimal level of slave driving?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998839)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:21 AM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

That would be a fair thing to say. Trying to squeeze extra hours out of associates may have negative effects, too. Quality of work goes down, time needed to be written off, lawyers are more unhappy and prone to leave, firm's reputation goes down.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998877)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:27 AM
Author: Sable Skinny Woman Casino

Even if it is the optimal level of slave driving, that may not be best for associates. Associates would love to work less for the same salary if it comes at the expense of the partners' incomes.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998932)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:36 AM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

I think associates would like to work less for the same salary so they can have more free time and less stress, not because they're pissed that they're making the partners rich.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4998986)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:38 AM
Author: Sable Skinny Woman Casino

I wasn't saying that they're out to get the partners. I'm saying that if that's where the money has to come from, they'd be fine with that. That would reduce PPP and suggest that associates may very well be better off at a firm that doesn't have the highest PPP ranking.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4999000)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 2:43 AM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

There isn't that much mobility. It isn't good for an associate to move around too much, so a move with the hopes of slightly less hours really isn't going to happen.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#4999042)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:07 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Here's a link to Bay Area numbers in case anybody missed it: http://www.bmacewen.com/blog/pdf/BayAreaTopTen2005Results.html (chart at end of article)

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000624)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:35 PM
Author: Vibrant chestnut police squad

These PPP numbers confuse me. The most common chart I've seen is: http://www.law.com/special/professionals/amlaw/amlaw200/amlaw200_ppp.html

That chart lists a lot of CA firms as having quite low PPP's. For example, Irell is $615,000, Munger is $660,000, and Orrick is $660,000.

What gives? What am I missing?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000833)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:37 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

You're missing that that chart is from 2000.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000854)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:37 PM
Author: Vibrant chestnut police squad

Haha good point. Where can I see the latest chart?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000858)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:38 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Look up this cite in Westlaw: 8/2005 AMLAW 113

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000866)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:53 PM
Author: Vibrant chestnut police squad

Thanks. What other charts that show rankings of law firms are good besides vault? I remember hearing one by AmLaw or something that was kind of like US News is that it assigned weights to a lot of different criteria.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000994)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 12:57 PM
Author: Trip peach ceo heaven

You are probably talking about the American Lawyer's A-List. They rank the top 20 firms in the country based on a few factors such as revenue per lawyer, associate satisfaction, pro-bono, diversity, etc. However, on their website you can see how all of the AmLaw 200 rank.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001025)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:00 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Yeah, AmLaw has its annual A-list: http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1125047117498

Not very popular on this board, because it includes pro bono and diversity scores. Even if you did think those were important factors, the methodology is unclear and probably whacked.

I don't think this or any other ranking is really all that good. Really it just comes down to what kind of work you want to do and what kind of firm will be the best fit for you. Unfortunately it can be pretty hard to know either until well after you've had to make a choice.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001045)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:04 PM
Author: Vibrant chestnut police squad

Thanks guys. Yeah I really don't care whatsoever about pro bono and diversity. Is there a way you can just see how firms rank when it comes to Associate Satisfaction and RPL Score (whatever that is?).

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001070)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:07 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Associate satisfaction is from their annual associates survey: http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?hubtype=Cover+Story&id=1127984709005

I think rating stuff this way is pretty unhelpful, although the avg hours billed/worked I think is pretty good.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001090)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:10 PM
Author: Charcoal zippy ape

Revenue per lawyer.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001108)



Reply

Date: February 5th, 2006 1:12 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Oh and if you need another random stat, you can check out corp deal volume/value:

Simpson Thacher dominates M&A in 3Q2005

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001115)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:21 PM
Author: Trip peach ceo heaven

The A-list has the categories broken down for every firm in the Am-Law 200. I would be careful how much stock you put into the "associate satisfaction" numbers. RPL is hard to fuge, but some of the most miserable people I know are at places with high satisfaction. Thats not to say they won't be better on the whole, its just saying you still might be miserable there.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001900)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:29 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Yeah, you can't put much stock in high associate satisfaction scores. Low satisfaction scores might mean something, but you have to keep in mind that it's a self-selecting group that answers the surveys, so it could be just a few responses from people with a bone to pick.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001951)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 12:37 PM
Author: bat shit crazy menage haunted graveyard

Old numbers?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5000855)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:00 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

Hazelrah: Seeing as you're unusually talented at searching greedy associates (which I am too dense to understand), have you seen anything about Wachtell numbers? Seems like if they want to keep their "better than everyone" compensation scheme, they'll have to bump up to $160,000 for first years (unless they want to rely entirely on bonuses for exceeding market). I guess the same holds true for Skadden too.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001041)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:03 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Haven't heard anything about Wachtell. Somebody (I think zcxv) said their first-year bonuses were around 60k, which seems about right. I think we'll need to wait a few weeks to see how the rest of the market deals with the S&C raises.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001066)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:34 PM
Author: Cracking Multi-billionaire Sound Barrier

wachtell had total comp $200K this year - bonuses at $60K.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001192)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:37 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

At 70 hrs/wk vs. 60, that comes out to an extra $5 per hour.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001206)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:38 PM
Author: Cracking Multi-billionaire Sound Barrier

hey man, I am not working there.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001210)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:40 PM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

Isn't it more like $80/hour?

200,000-160,000 divided by 10 x 50

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002033)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:46 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

We're calculating different things. Yours treats the extra Wachtell hours as "overtime pay," mine was how much the Wachtell associate makes as a fixed hourly wage. Both are probably useful to know.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002064)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:48 PM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

Gotcha. By number shows that $5 more per hour not insubstantial even if you're making 6-figures.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002081)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:50 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Yeah, I shouldn't have brushed it off like that. Anybody who's worked a wage job knows that an extra $5/hr is huge, especially when you're talking 60 hours a week. I've been "promoted" with wage increases far below that.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002089)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:51 PM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

Yeah. Look at the political impact/depates that go into a $.25 or $.50 min. wage increase.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002100)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:54 PM
Author: confused trust fund

I'm not sure too many people would accept working another 10-12 hour full day for the $5/hr promotion. In the real world, overtime pays time and a half. How does that figure into your calculations?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002119)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:58 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

It's about right, and a little better, because I'd figure somebody at e.g. DPW was making ~$53/hr, and the post above puts Wachtell overtime pay at $80/hr, which is pretty good.

But yeah, the problem is the marginal value of free time usually gets extremely high as you get later and later into the day.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002153)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:03 PM
Author: Bossy Crawly Psychic

Law really does not pay as well as business. This is the very of the top and compared to successful finance/entrepreneurs, they don't earn a lot. I mean, obviously they earn an obscene amount. But considering that it's the very top of the earnings chart (excluding the like 2 plaintiff's attorneys who make zillions), the positions are freakin impossible to get, and they're crushing to have, the salaries are not that high.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001063)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 1:04 PM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

and your point is?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5001069)



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Date: February 5th, 2006 3:38 PM
Author: 180 coffee pot genital piercing

The problem is that law firms: 1) bill by the hour, and 2) have no assets besides human capital. Those two statements are obvious, but when you think about it, you'll realize why a law firm isn't a great business.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5002021)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 8:15 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Post-weekend bump.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5007815)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:17 AM
Author: exhilarant disrespectful marketing idea

Educate me. PPP doesn't mean that is what the partner takes home, correct? You still need to reduce it by assc. salary, business expenses, etc.?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008262)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:19 AM
Author: Cracking Multi-billionaire Sound Barrier

that would be revenue per partner not profits. profits are whats left after the expenses are taken out. I am not sure if associate bonuses count as expenses - they probably do.

I think partners get to take home the profits unless tey reinvest it into some big captial expenditure.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008287)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:37 AM
Author: Aphrodisiac Site

Do you know if the profits per partner figure just the profits divided by number partners (so there could be some partners making more or less than the figure listed) or is it more the average partner's gross pay?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008413)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:40 AM
Author: vigorous dark nibblets trailer park

i'm pretty sure that PPP is just the whole pot divided by the number of partners. in reality, junior partners will be taking home less than PPP, and senior partners more -- at least at a lockstep firm. at an eat-what-you-kill firm, different partners will be taking home more and less than PPP, but as determined by performance rather than seniority.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008441)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:46 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Almost all lockstep firms allow for some adjustment for performance, so younger rainmakers can still make as much or more as more senior partners.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008489)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:53 AM
Author: exhilarant disrespectful marketing idea

How does the partnership "buy in" get figured?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008566)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 11:56 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Pretty sure they aren't figured into these numbers.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008592)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 12:02 PM
Author: exhilarant disrespectful marketing idea

They can be rather signifcant I believe. I think they are included in a capital account, which you should be able to recover when you leave the firm.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008645)



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Date: February 6th, 2006 12:04 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Yeah, I believe at many firms, new partners make less than senior associates when you take the required buy-in into account.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5008672)



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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:54 AM
Author: pearly senate jap

Well I'm glad this thread was helpful to somebody: http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002wvB (although I think I recognize that name from this board)

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5054802)



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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:01 AM
Author: Comical Hairless Love Of Her Life

Yeah, i think i've had a discussion on here with that guy before.

What do you make of this contention about LA firms? You seem to be the foremost authority on LA firm compensation.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5054863)



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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:46 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

I would definitely like to see salaries go up. I'm not exactly excited about the prospect of being a 2nd year in LA and knowing a first-year in the NY office is making more in salary *and* bonus. But it remains to be seen how much influence the NY firms have in LA.

The only top NY firms in LA are SullCrom, Skadden, and Simpson. S&C and Simpson are both pretty small and probably hire less than 10 summers between them. I also don't think they take very many laterals. It's not clear to me that they overlap all that much with Munger/Irell/Quinn or GDC/OMM/LW in LA, unless you wanted to a specific kind of corp practice.

Skadden is a bigger player with a broader practice. But they've been at $140k and paying (close to) NY bonuses, with limited effect, although maybe the difference is big enough now to force LA firms to respond.

Milbank, White & Case, and Proskauer are in LA also, but I don't really know too much about these offices. Proskauer is possibly more of a contender, with their litigation/entertainment practice.

I think at the very least we'll see the LA firms match Kirkland's $10k across the board raise. A $15k disparity for 2nd years and higher will really increase dissatisfaction, if not lateralling. $10k might allow for some wiggle room with bonuses, although it's not like the LA firms (except maybe Irell) were really matching NY bonuses anyway.

I might be missing something here and there could be more pressure in LA than I've noticed. But I think if it does go to $145k, Silicon Valley will play a big part of it -- there are a few more NY firms there, and they seem to be expanding and grabbing market share from Wilson Sonsini and the local players. So we'll see what happens.

I think I'll start a Cali $145k raise vigil thread, heh.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5056343)



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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:49 PM
Author: gay jet-lagged gas station

Have Milbank, White & Case and Proskauer announced matching across the board?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5056368)



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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:52 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

I believe Milbank has (do they have an hours requirement on their bonuses?) and Proskauer is expected to announce next week. I'm not so sure on White & Case -- they announced in NY but I don't think those apply to other offices. Could be wrong.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5056394)



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Date: February 22nd, 2006 1:41 PM
Author: pearly senate jap

Added info on OMM, Paul Hastings, and profits per equity partner / all partners distinction.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1139911510735

http://www.legalweekstudent.net/ViewItem.asp?id=27628

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&forum_id=2#5157033)