Date: December 18th, 2006 7:21 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Details to follow. Bonuses reached 120K.
EDIT:
Due to the confusion and misinformation spreading around I thought I would explain the KIRKLAND & ELLIS bonus system:
1) The firm uses a two-dimensional grid to determine bonuses. The rows of the grid are billable hours ranges (in increments of sometimes 50 but no more than 100 hours). The columns of the grid are class years.
2) The firm benchmarks the grid to the New York market by setting 1800-1900 as what is needed to get the New York market salary (35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60). Therefore an associate gets at least the NY market by billing 1800-1900.
3) The firm does not release the grid and only equity partners know all the data points on the grid. At a meeting the firm will reveal generalized information about the grid like the high's and low's for each class and perhaps the number of people in each class X who get in the 130,000's, 120,000's, etc.
4) Associates are told their individual numbers in private. Nobody except the equity partners know the full.
6) The low sub-market numbers you are seeing are for laterals who were not with the firm for the entire year.
7) The way the meritocracy works is to allow an associate to be "bumped up" 1 or 2 class years on the grid if he/she receives an "above the class" or a "top of the class" rating, respectively. (An example of how the meritocracy works: a 3rd year who is above the class and bills 2200 hours will get the same bonus as a 4th year who is with the class who bills 2200 hours.) Essentially all of the junior associates are rated with the class. Associates begin to break out above the class in the mid-level years.
8) It seems this year that an average billing junior associate (the firm's average is about 2050) gets about $10-15K over market and an average billing mid-to-senior associate gets at least $20-30K over market. As I explained in 5, the precise accuracy of numbers is hard to verify as it is based on a collection of data points and not the full grid.
9) Of course, you can shatter the NY market and make a ton of money on the grid by being either a high biller or being rated above the class.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:14 PM Author: Sadistic office
The poster on Greedy LA claims there is no memo because it's discretionary for each associate. That might be true for LA (no memo was posted last year) but there was a memo for NY last year.
Confirmed. I know two associates at K&E Chicago - both Class of 2001, and both with ranked 'with the class'
One received (or is receiving this Friday) $95,000, and the other $83,000, in boni. For those in same class with above, or at top of class, rankings, the numbers were well through $100K.
This year, as opposed to last, the boni grids were the same across all K&E offices.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:23 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I did not know this about Chicago. It seems fair that the grids are the same for all offices since they are based on hours. I do not know that they were not the same last year as I just assume that they are lower on average because on average non-NY associates work less.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:37 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
It looks like KIRKLAND & ELLIS is primed to be the undisputed #1 firm in every single city as they don't even have a Wachtell Lipton to compete with in other cities besides NY.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:43 PM Author: autistic university
If this is true, the great part is that there is no memo so all the other firms can continue to be cheap.
What I am really looking forward to is if next year isn't as fantastic as this year, will they all the V10 firms lower bonuses? That would be really great.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:46 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
There was no memo at KIRKLAND & ELLIS last year yet the information that the KIRKLAND & ELLIS Firm Committee members write on a flip-chart at the annual bonus meeting makes its way onto the message boards.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:48 PM Author: autistic university
Yes, but since it is a "discretionary system" - the other firms can say "we don't do that, we do lock step!!!!" and ignore it. And since 80% of law firm associates are clueless or trust their firm, they don't figure it out.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:50 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
You are correct. The NYC hasbeens and their crappy associates are in denial and fail to realize that even the lazy and bad associates at KIRKLAND & ELLIS get above the market.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:52 PM Author: autistic university
I don't think law firm associates are in denial that it sucks to be working in law. I think anyone whose paying attention realizes this.
I do admit, though, that I thought they would catch up with Kirkland. Actually, I'm starting to really hate the lockstep method. Just seems like an easy way for them to limit the bargaining power of stars completely and undercut their salary.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:55 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
This is why KIRKLAND & ELLIS is the firm of the future and will soon be #1 in every single practice area and in every single city. Any star will want to lateral to KIRKLAND & ELLIS and the best law students will all want to summer at KIRKLAND & ELLIS.
We better do the Cravath Walk for the entire partnership.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:56 PM Author: autistic university
Not sure many people are going to abandon all of their connections to lateral into a new firm for an extra $15k. Basically, it'll cause the S&C / DPW / CSM kids to say "WTF?" and move on.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:58 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
It will be a gradual process that will happen over time and not overnight. The best law students will be even more likely to come to KIRKLAND & ELLIS and the best lateral candidates will think more about KIRKLAND & ELLIS.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:05 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I do not follow Vault methodology so can you please tell me how KIRKLAND & ELLIS can increase its Vault ranking. Is it like USNWR where a law school can game the system by buying more books for their library.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:07 PM Author: Odious Poppy Menage
Its a survey of "prestige" by biglaw associates (we rank from 1 to 10). Associates can vote as many times as they would like (there is no safeguard), and only about 13000 end up voting.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:01 PM Author: Sadistic office
It's kinda amusing because I feel like I remember you and me arguing over compensation (re: S&C raises or something) a few times last year, but this year you seem to have joined me in feeling financepwn3d.
Date: December 18th, 2006 8:47 PM Author: Silver massive garrison
the one thing that we know for sure is that KIRKLAND & ELLIS will continue to give monster bonuses that shatter the new York market, no matter how the economy is doing
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:00 PM Author: Odious Poppy Menage
In this years vault, i will be giving kirkland a score of 10, and i will be voting dozens of times. I suggest all of you do the same.
For those who dont know, firms actually care alot about the vault rankings because of its impact on recruiting.
Likewise, cravath was the firm this year that successfully depressed the market, they will be getting all 6s (below 6 will probably be tossed out as an outlier).
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:01 PM Author: autistic university
I wish we could get a critical mass for this. Cravath, particularly, seemed to race to presses to match with what seemed like an audible sigh of relief from the partners.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:02 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
KIRKLAND & ELLIS already deserves 10's because it is the best and most prestigious law firm in the nation but I do appreciate your cooperation in making Vault see what I see.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:03 PM Author: Sadistic office
Here are some more numbers on Greedy, although somebody claims they should be about 10-15% higher:
"Exact bonus depends on a combo of hours worked and the associate's rank (basically, associates are graded). Word is, the low end of the spectrum is for laterals who did not work a full year. Associates who worked around 1900-2000 hours and were "with class" supposedly got a market bonus:
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:13 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
At KIRKLAND & ELLIS it is just as hard to get below class as it is to get fired at a NYC hasbeen as it is basically the equivalent of getting "the talk"
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:16 PM Author: Silver massive garrison
Do you think someone "below class" at K&E would probably be an average associate at Davis/S&C/Cravath due to the superior training they already recieved at K&E?
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:19 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
No I do not think so. I believe you are not grasping the full breadth of "below the class." The rare person who is "below class" at KIRKLAND & ELLIS is someone who will not be able to last at any of the NYC hasbeens and that person probably didn't get any superior training because they were too incompetent to take advantage of it and learn anything from it.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:21 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
At KIRKLAND & ELLIS it is nearly impossible for a newer associate to "break out" and get above the class so nearly everyone can be expected to be rated with the class for at least the first couple years. As you get more senior KIRKLAND & ELLIS will start making people above the class.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:32 PM Author: Sadistic office
Here's another from Greedy Chicago:
"Sources at Kirkland indicate that the 06 Kirkland bonuses are as follows - give or take a few thousand. Kirkland definitely rocks. It will be interesting to see how other firms respond.
Date: December 18th, 2006 9:35 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
My sources are telling my that the KIRKLAND & ELLIS hours that guy has are too high as the numbers seem right but you might have had to work less to get said bonus. This is hard to pin down in that KIRKLAND & ELLIS doesn't release the grid.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:14 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
The KIRKLAND & ELLIS grid is not released to the associates. They tell bits and pieces of it and people ask each other what their numbers are and people figure things out themselves.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:15 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
My sources tell me that KIRKLAND & ELLIS used 1800 hours to benchmark their grid against the NYC market. So a KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate who worked over 1800 hours would have got above market.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:18 PM Author: autistic university
" So a KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate who worked over 1800 hours would have got above market"
well, no. You have to meet the next threshold. If you work 1999, you make market -5. If you work 2000, you make market +7. That's going off the above chart.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:21 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
That chart is not the official KIRKLAND & ELLIS grid as it is more of a compilation of bits and pieces that the poster acquired so it could be lower in some instances and higher in other instances. KIRKLAND & ELLIS specifically said that the 1800 hour threshold was what you needed to do to get market.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:29 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Me and the other guy are probably getting different data points from different sources and are both trying to connect the dots based on the data points that we're seeing from KIRKLAND & ELLIS.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:39 PM Author: autistic university
There is no way you can confirm any information because you don't even work there. I don't understand why I should believe anything you say at all.
2k over market is not shattering, especially when there is a very real possibility you could make 25k if you work in a less strenuous practice area. Even if you hit 2200, you're only getting 6 k extra. I'm not trying to belittle that - I'd like to have an extra 6 k - but that isn't enough to make me choose them over S&C or DPW.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:47 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
The framework for how KIRKLAND & ELLIS sets the grid is the same every year and isn't anything announced today. They told us all this over the summer, except this year's actual data points.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:00 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
KIRKLAND & ELLIS said today that on the grid you need 1800 hours to get the NY market and I have confirmed this. And KIRKLAND & ELLIS is a superior firm.
So assuming all this, at 2000 hours, you're $6k above for first and second years; about $10k over for third year; and then it's uphill from there.
Since the median stay at one of these firms is about 3.5 years, working at Kirkland over a higher-ranked firm gives the median attorney at 2000 hours a $ premium of $22k. That's nice, but it's not a ton. Better exit opportunities are clearly worth more than that.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:24 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I said above that the chart seems higher in some cases and much lower in other cases than what I heard; bottom line is that nobody has the official KIRKLAND & ELLIS grid.
Remember that the median NYC attorney at a NY hasbeen works 2100-2250 hours, not 2000 hours. And KIRKLAND & ELLIS has better exit opportunities than your NYC hasbeen.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:26 PM Author: autistic university
Again, the median NY attorney does not work 2250 hours. This is especially true outside of M&A. The 2000 bonus number is the relevant number for most of us.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:30 PM Author: autistic university
Perhaps, but less than 2200. You seem to miss the point that you have to hit the 2200 number in order to get that bonus. People who work 2130 get the 2000 bonus.
I'm seeing more and more why lockstep makes sense...
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:39 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
No you seem to miss the point that the guy just posted random data points that he thinks he knows. The KIRKLAND & ELLIS grid is based on 50 hour increments, not 200 hour increments.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:29 PM Author: autistic university
whereas the other firms give a prorated bonus, which is going to end up being abotu the same.
So we're comparing the first year bonus to the 35 k number? All this hubub over a 2k increase? Hell, I'll give up the 2k for assurance that I don't hit a slow market in my area and can't bill 2000 and get 25 k!!!
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:34 PM Author: autistic university
3rd years and 4th years tend to make a little more (15k) but this is still nothing to get overwhelmed about.
If you're some superstar hotshot billing 2300 hrs, you probably want to make partner, and if you want to make partner, you'd want to do it at one of the other firms, not K&E.
What a bunch of excitement over nothing. If I murder myself, maybe i'll get an extra 6 k. This is hardly "shattering" the NY Market.
i have no idea what the numbers are at Cravath, although it wouldn't surprise me if a ton of people were hitting 2400+ (or at any other V10 in NYC for that matter). Cravath doesn't keep track of billables at all from what I can tell.
I asked a ton of associates what they billed and all of them said that no one has ever kept track or told them how much they billed, and they wouldn't even know who to ask to find out.
I have no idea what a DTE is. I just know that every associate told me that Cravath never tells you how much you are billing or how much anyone else is.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:54 PM Author: autistic university
daily time entry. that might be outing my summer firm, but as it turns out I don't care because I'm not going there.
Well, the later might be true at other firms, but I know that at my firm over the summer most people knew exactly, to the minute, how many hours they billed. They just logged into the DTE system and it told them.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:17 PM Author: autistic university
Yes. I didn't go through OCI, I called up one of the firms I had an offer at from the year before. They are happy to hire people like me because they can stick me at recruiting events.
I may have burnt bridges. They seemed pretty pissed about it.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:45 PM Author: autistic university
"top 4th years" have I ever said anything different? How many top 4th years are there, 10?
those guys would probably rather be a partner at S&C than at kirkland (though S&C has discretionary bonuses). So it might make sense that they wouldn't want to take the money.
For the vast majority of us, this is an irrellevant choice anyway.
Yeah it's like, you work really hard, get a small premium to keep the rock stars from going somewhere more preftigiouf, and then you get "rewarded" with a partnership track that's two years longer, and partnership at an inferior firm. HURRAY!
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:55 PM Author: autistic university
Non-equity partnership! I can confuse my parents and friends by telling them I'm a partner!
Listen, I appreciate K&E for putting so much thought into this. Any increase over market is nice, and it is nice that they reward the hard workers. But I'm certainly underwhelmed after all the "shattering" talk.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:59 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
In an attempt to feel better about your ding from KIRKLAND & ELLIS you've convinced yourself that KIRKLAND & ELLIS associates are going to possibly get $15K below the NY market at KIRKLAND & ELLIS which is complete horseshit.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:04 PM Author: autistic university
No, I'm saying 3rd years make 15k MORE than NY market, but that this makes sense because they have to pay prime associates not to leave. 15k is great though, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't seem earth shattering when we also include exit options and where you'd rather be a partner.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
The average third year associate at KIRKLAND & ELLIS isn't going to make equity partner at KIRKLAND & ELLIS or, and the average NY hasbeen third year isn't going to make partner at his hasbeen. So it is therefore better to take the $15K at KIRKLAND & ELLIS which is also the firm that will give you better training and better exit options.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:12 PM Author: autistic university
The first point, that most people won't make parter, is a solid point.
I do not think, however, that you are going to get better training and exit options in corporate at K&E NYC than at DPW, S&C, Cravath, Simpson, or Debevoise. At that point, you might be willing to give up the 15k.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:00 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
Associates who work at KIRKLAND & ELLIS appreciate the amount of money they get over market, even though for the junior people it ends up being de minimus.
Going to a firm to make a couple of extra bucks is pretty stupid. The junior people I met with at KIRKLAND & ELLIS go there because they get pretty substantial experience early on in their careers.
I regret that I have to work at the same firm as KirklandTroll.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:57 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
The average KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate is doing substantially better than the NY market, and the star associates would rather be partner at KIRKLAND & ELLIS than a shit hasbeen like Sullivan.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:33 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
"2k increase" is something you have invented to demean KIRKLAND & ELLIS and is totally baseless. The real numbers at KIRKLAND & ELLIS are much higher than that.
You have to bill 1800 to get the NYC market. KIRKLAND & ELLIS will never be slow as it is booming unlike your terrible NYC hasbeen.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:55 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
For a lateral KIRKLAND & ELLIS figures out how much you would have billed if you were there for 12 months and gives you a bonus number based on the grid and then they prorate that number based on how long you've been there.
Date: December 18th, 2006 10:55 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
Laterals to KIRKLAND & ELLIS get screwed because unlike other firms that run from January to December, KIRKLAND & ELLIS tracks hours from July to June.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:05 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
This does not, in and of itself, solve the problem. So instead of a new KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate getting shafted for six months, KIRKLAND & ELLIS only shafts him for three months?
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:10 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
It's less of a shaft than before. If that lateral stays to make non-equity partner at KIRKLAND & ELLIS it all evens out because of he or she would get fully paid out for that money he left on the table.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:10 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
I was the best opponent because PrestigeWhore and Cravath3L are going to hasbeen firms, whereas I am joining the illustrious offices of KIRKLAND & ELLIS.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:13 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
PrestigeWhore just makes stuff up about KIRKLAND & ELLIS and refuses to believe the facts. He has convinced himself that the KIRKLAND & ELLIS grid is based on 200 hour increments and that someone billing 2200 gets paid the same as someone billing 2399 which is complete horeshit.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:15 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
You do not possess said "facts." If I were a senior attorney at KIRKLAND & ELLIS, I would not ask you to do work for me under KIRKLAND & ELLIS's free market system.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:17 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
The KIRKLAND & ELLIS grid is not based on 200 hour increments and that is a fact that anyone who has ever worked at KIRKLAND & ELLIS could easily know.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I have several data points and some of the general information that they said at today's KIRKLAND & ELLIS meeting. I don't have all of the facts and nobody (including Greedy NY posters) except an equity partner with the grid in his hands has all the facts.
The grid at KIRKLAND & ELLIS takes class performance into account by making you 1 year ahead if you're above class and 2 years ahead if you're top of the class. 1st and 2nd years essentially all get with the class so it is largely irrelevant as a matter of practicality.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:29 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
And this would explain why the means for the third years and up start to take off -- it's because the top of the class at KIRKLAND & ELLIS gets bumped up. Since these guys would be on the high end of their class, that skews the mean bonus for the right whereas the median bonus is lower.
The "average" third year at KIRKLAND & ELLIS making $15k above doesn't really exist. Probably, you have superstar third years making $30k above, and everyone else with the class at KIRLAND & ELLIS is making something more like $10k above.
That's great if you want to be a rockstar, but since rockstars are probably also working lots of hours, I don't think I really want that to be me.
In sum, KIRKLAND & ELLIS does pay higher market bonus, but for most people, the premium is not as high as you pretend it to be.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:33 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
You are missing the point that KIRKLAND & ELLIS rewards hard work even if you're not a rockstar who gets rated above the class. The average KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate is working 2050-2100 and makes substantially above the market for the same work that he would do at a NYC hasebeen. And the KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate who works really hard (2300+) gets a bonus that shatters the market even if he is still rated with the class.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:36 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
If people at the top of the class are getting bonuses of the next year up or two years up, that explains why third year average bonuses at KIRKLAND & ELLIS are so high -- because they include the rock stars.
I bet that if you factor out the rock stars, KIRKLAND & ELLIS associates, are making $10k or $15k above market. That is great for KIRKLAND & ELLIS associates but it's not shattering the market.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:41 PM Author: autistic university
Answer the question! Are you saying that 10 - 15k increase for the normal 3rd and 4th years is "shattering"? Stop with the nonsense proclimations. You claim to have inside info that I would like to know. Just tell me.
Wachtell is shattering to me. Goldman bonuses are shatteringly large over other ibanks. 15k for a 3rd/4th year lawyer isn't really shattering to me. It's nice, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that would be a huge consideration to me in picking firms.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:42 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
A normal 3rd or 4th year at KIRKLAND & ELLIS is getting much more than 10-15K above market. Look at last year's numbers even. 10-15K is the norm for 1st and 2nd years.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:46 PM Author: autistic university
OK. Do you know what that number is? You just said below that it was 11k for a second year, but that might include superstar bonuses. What is the number NOT INCLUDING PEOPLE GUNNING FOR PARTNER. That is what I care about. With your inside sources, make a small chart which has what someone at each class year billing 2100 hours makes at Kirkland. That would end the discussion.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:48 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
There isn't a "superstar bonus" and you don't seem to understand the fact that it isn't binary. You can look at last year's chart which has been posted all over this board for an example.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:51 PM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
There is a superstar bonus and you acknowledge it in an earlier post.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:24 PM
Author: KirklandTroll
[...]
The grid at KIRKLAND & ELLIS takes class performance into account by making you 1 year ahead if you're above class and 2 years ahead if you're top of the class. 1st and 2nd years essentially all get with the class so it is largely irrelevant as a matter of practicality.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:54 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
As you said earlier it is two-dimensional. There isn't "superstar" and "non-superstar" as this guy thinks it is. There is "superstar bonus" "high biller bonus" "superstar and high biller bonus" etc etc etc.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:04 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Correct. Your evaluation at KIRKLAND & ELLIS is based on the quality of your work and has absolutely nothing to do with how much you worked. At KIRKLAND & ELLIS they value being a superstar attorney and billing 2400 hours doesn't mean that you're doing work that is superior to your classmates.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:27 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
You really have a problem with the meritocracy part of KIRKLAND & ELLIS where work quality is valued and you have to do more than bill hours to make equity partner.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:37 AM Author: autistic university
I understand that work quality is important. But any suggestion that a superstar can get by without billing a ton of hours strikes me as highly implausible. Partners and associates make money by billing hours. There probably are a few exceptions, but as a general rule I think hours billed are a pretty good sign of who is a superstar.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:55 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
At KIRKLAND & ELLIS you get a written evaluation from the people you do work for and they judge you based on the quality of your work without regard to hours billed. Yes I would agree that most superstars bill a lot of hours but there are lots of people doing lots of work who are decent but not the best people at the firm.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:12 AM Author: Know-it-all aquamarine dysfunction
They get figured out to be brilliant in their first and second years, and then get dumped on with work by all the partners who want them to work on their projects. Since they want to make partner, they do it.
Brilliant efficiency -> get dumped on -> bill lots of hours -> awesome bonus.
But efficiency does not equal increased revenues for the partners.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:16 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
The brilliant ones who also know how to play the system effectively turn down work and make themselves seem even more godlike and desirable to work for.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:57 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Only an equity partner at KIRKLAND & ELLIS knows the exact numbers. KIRKLAND & ELLIS associates are only told their individual number and some generalized information about highs and lows and can only find out ballpark numbers by asking their colleagues.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:07 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I am saying that I don't have enough information to make the nice little chart that you want. Hypothetically, I may know the numbers for a 1st year @ 1950, a 1st year @ 2400, a 2nd yr @ 2200, a 4th year @ 2700, a 5th yr @ 2100 and so on. That does not tell me enough to draw the nice little chart that you want and is not enough information to make a ballbark guess.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:14 AM Author: autistic university
so the information isn't good enough to make a chart, but it is good enough for you to claim that (1) the greedy post is wrong, and (2) the kirkland bonuses have SHATTERED the market?
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:18 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I said that the Greedy post has some data points that are consistent with my numbers and other data points that I know to be incorrect. It also fucked up the low numbers because it doesn't know that those numbers were for laterals.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:23 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
For one, the low numbers are totally wrong because of the laterals. The 1800, 1900 numbers all should look something like the NY market (35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60). My 1st and 2nd year numbers for average KIRKLAND & ELLIS associates (2050 is the average) seems to be more in the 10K-12K range.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:29 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I know more of the junior people so my data at that point is more fuzzy and also when you get into those years you have more people who may or may not be above the class. So it is more difficult for me to piece the numbers together. It's clearly going to be more than the 1st 2nd yr numbers.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:56 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
The grids are not released at KIRKLAND & ELLIS. The only way to KNOW is to ask enough people so that you find someone in each class who billed 2100 hours. If you ask a 3rd year what his bonus is and he tells you what it was for the 2250 he billed, you can piece together that it might be for 2100 hours but there is no way to officially know.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:58 PM Author: autistic university
Great - i think you are basically saying you don't know. But you claimed that the greedy post was wrong. I would like to know what inside information you have that negates that.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:01 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
I said that I have some data points but not all the data points. Some of the data points I have conflict with the greedy post. No KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate has all the data points The greedy post is obviously improvised based on some data points that he has.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:08 AM Author: autistic university
Like I said, above, I am not auditing the firm so I don't need exact numbers. Perhaps all of your friends are brilling people who don't need to bill a lot. Perhaps your numbers are right on, perhaps the greedy post is right on. I don't think there is any possible way for you or me to know one way or the other. Just tell me what range you are getting. Any info would be useful.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:11 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
If someone is above the class they would get the same bonus as someone a year ahead of them. For example someone in 2002 who bills 2200 hours and is above the class gets paid the same as someone with the class in 2001 billing 2200 hours.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:21 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Yes, essentially "above the class" lets you skip one grade and "top of the class" lets you skip two grades for bonus purposes but not partnership track. Nobody really knows how many people are above or top of the class unless certain people who get it brag about it which appears to be very unacceptable and tacky.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:22 AM Author: autistic university
ok, this is getting complicated. I wonder if the 2400 hour bonus projection on greedy is meant to include this above the class stuff or not. I also wonder why they wouldn't let someone who is billing 2400 hours skip the class.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:27 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
You don't seem to understand that you aren't "top of the class" because you manage to bill 2400 hours and that doing so does not make you the best KIRKLAND & ELLIS lawyer in your class.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:35 AM Author: autistic university
I do understand your argument. We fundamentally disagree on a key point - you seem to think that hours billed has nothing to do with whether you are classified as a superstar "above the class" or not. I simply cannot believe that. That isn't how any other major firm operates. While there may be one or two exceptions, I think, generally, superstars have to bill a lot of hours in order to get financially treated as superstars.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:57 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
At KIRKLAND & ELLIS billing a lot of hours is generally necessary to be a superstar (with the exception being the brilliant people who can get away with billing a good amount), but is in no way sufficient to make you a superstar.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:20 PM Author: autistic university
I never claimed to have worked at K&E, and the reality that I got that detail confused doesn't make your claim that the bonuses were "shattering" any more legitimate.
Now, if you are right and the associates get market at 1800 hours, and get $1000 per 50 hours worked over that number, then the bonuses are a little better. But, I am not a math student, and I can only extend the hypothetical so far before my head hurts.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:26 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
It is not a linear formula. You can look at last year's chart with the averages to see that the median KIRKLAND & ELLIS associate does substantially better than the market, and then realize that KIRKLAND & ELLIS shattered last year's numbers this year.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:28 PM Author: autistic university
how do you define "shatter" and "substantially better"? NYC total comp is more this year than it was last year, so the gap may have closed regardless of the fact that they are paying more...
Bascially you are saying the greedy post is wrong. What numbers are you getting?
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:31 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Look at KIRKLAND & ELLIS's chart from last year which has been posted here many times. KIRKLAND & ELLIS announced today that they shattered last year's KIRKLAND & ELLIS numbers. It has nothing to do with total comp in any way you moron.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:34 PM Author: autistic university
Ok, so you have no idea and just like saying "shattering" a lot. If they "shattered" by 2k, i'm unimpressed. I think any rational person would take the greedy post over your inside info which apparently isn't good enough for you to make your own chart.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:37 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
Last year the average 1st year at KIRKLAND & ELLIS got 8K over market and the average 2nd year got 11K over the market. People on Greedy are saying that there is a 25% increase over last year. That is shattering to me.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:40 PM Author: autistic university
by average, do you mean the median, or the average number, which includes superstars? What bonuses do the non-superstars make? According to the greedy post, that is 2k above market.
And, if you know all these kirkland associates and have all the inside info, why are you citing greedy posters? that suggests that you have no inside sources.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:45 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I posted this worldwide exclusive breaking news thread on KIRKLAND & ELLIS before any Greedy post so that should be testament enough to my insider information.
You are taking too much of a simplistic view of things. There aren't "superstars" and "non-superstars." The baseline is 1800 hours and with the class. If you're above the class or top of the class you get much more than market and if you are billing a ton of hours you get much more than the market.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:47 PM Author: autistic university
Like I said above, make a chart with what people get who bill 2100 hours. If you know all this info, you should be able to do this. If you can't, you are just a troll with no knowledge and I'm going with greedy, which, according to what is posted above, says a 2k premium for 1st years and a 15k premium for 3rd / 4th years.
given that I have no idea what health / brokers fee payments / 401k plans these firms have, it very well might be a tie.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:01 AM Author: autistic university
Are you claiming that bonuses are not tied enough to hours to make a rough estimate? Or are you claiming that you just don't have enough information overall?
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:09 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
I am claiming that I don't have enough information. It differs for every class and for small hours increments and is not even linear so it is impossible to piece the entire grid together.
Date: December 18th, 2006 11:22 PM Author: autistic university
I don't either. I'm actually just trying to figure this out. If they are shattering bonuses, they are shattering. But lets make sure they actually are shattering before we hype them up.
Date: December 19th, 2006 12:31 AM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
There will never be specific numbers that are official. KIRKLAND & ELLIS releases general information about the highs and lows and gives each person his number. Various data points are showing up on greedy and from me but any attempt to put it into a chart is pure speculation.
Date: December 19th, 2006 7:02 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
*MISINFORMATION ALERT*
Market shattering KIRKLAND & ELLIS bonuses are paid in late December based on your hours from Sept 1 to Aug 31.
In the past you were paid a bonus in December based on your hours from July 1 to June 30 so it mean that people were leaving money in the table if they left.
Date: December 19th, 2006 7:11 PM Author: Canary Charismatic Faggotry
At KIRKLAND & ELLIS the run of the mill associate who is neither above the class nor a high biller gets $10-15K above the NY market in the first couple years and then more like $20-30K in the later years. And if you're great or work your ass off, you can get bonuses that are $70,000 *ABOVE* the NY market.
If that's not "market shattering," please tell me what this is and what market shattering is.