I did not realize this was all such a big deal until somebody pointed me to this message board. There are lots of classes that are over-subscribed. What is the big deal with Fed Courts and 3Ls. I would have thought it would be a bigger deal for 2Ls who did not rank it first and are on the waitlist.

I have not read all these posts, it is just too much, and there are so many non-CLS views on there that I really could care less about, but I will try to at least explain my position:

1) Did not know this was such a big deal (still not convinced that it is). But I would imagine plenty of the 2Ls still in the class have not given this much thought. Certainly not enough thought to mean anyone else harm. Dorf did send an e-mail about over-subscription to the class, but that happens in lots of classes. Should it be common practice for 2Ls who get into the classes they want to drop them for 3Ls who did not rank the classes as high (I know I ranked it higher than complaining 3Ls (I ranked it first) because 3Ls have priority in all classes in the class lottery).

2) Why do 3Ls have the moral high ground here. Even leaving aside the important fact that I ranked the class higher than you, and you had priority over me if we had both ranked it #1, it seems to me to be relatively important to take the class as a 2L. Maybe not crucial, but probably more important than 3Ls taking it. I would like to clerk somewhere...I'd be very happy if it ended up being in a federal court, and I (and all many other 2Ls) are about to apply for a clerkship. Most of the 3Ls have already applied. So, this is an important "last chance" of sorts for 2Ls too. This is the last chance to take the class before clerkship applications. Last chance to try to work hard and get a respectable grade in it to signal to potential judge employers. I mean, you can see how some 2Ls might think that is important right? More or less important than 3Ls who already have a clerkship and want to squeeze in the class in their last semester? I don't know. It's close. But the fact that I ranked the class with appropriate priority (Dorf has been clear that the class was in a small room and would be oversubscribed since last semester) I think really seems to cut against any argument that I have a moral obligation to yield my spot.

If I unsubscribe, I let in one student. Might be a 2L, might be a 3L, but it will almost certainly be someone who ranked the class lower than me. My reason for taking it now is because I hope it will help me with clerkships. Sure it might hurt me, but I think I am taking an informed risk, and I generally think it has a better chance of helping me than hurting me.

Am I wrong?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7381657)

While I can understand wanting to take it as a 2L, I don't think you are correct in thinking that it's MORE important for a 2L to take it than a 3L. You're right in that it's your last chance to give yourself a marginal boost as a 2L. But many 3Ls have promised their judges that they would be taking Fed Cts as a 3L. (I know this doesn't dismiss the response of "then they should have ranked it higher" - this is just to rebut the idea that it's not important for them.)

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7381721)

And has anyone actually confirmed that a judge really did force a clerk to promise this?

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7381907)

1) You say that as a 2L you want to take Fed Courts to clerk. But there are 3Ls who have clerkships already whose judges expect them to take it and there are 3Ls who will be applying to clerkships in the future where judges will expect that they have taken it. This is their last chance to take it. You're a 2L, you still have another year and a guaranteed spot in the fall class. You really think that these 3Ls are taking Fed Courts only because it's a 4 credit class and they like the professor? Come on.

2) You say you're a 2L and you want to take Fed Courts so you can clerk. But you don't see why there's such a fuss about this class. Is there really any other class like Fed Courts that is so important and that judges want you to take before clerking?

Yes, 3Ls underestimated demand and underestimated class size. Sure, they don't have a moral high ground. But it really comes down to this: some of your fellow classmates made a mistake and need to take this class more than you. What's done is done: they're on the waitlist and you're not, but they need to take the class more than you do. So why are you being an ass?

If you want, you can try to justify your actions based on their mistakes. But they can't change what they did and their position on the waitlist. However, you can, and by not dropping the class and taking it next year you are knowingly screwing over your fellow classmates.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7382320)

In fact I'd be tempted to go one step further and make the list available to all clerks (though I guess seeing Dorf's fed courts on a CLS 2008 grad's Spr. 07 transcript would be sufficient).

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7383037)

There is no reason you should drop it for a 3L who was foolish enough not to rank it #1 when they promised a future employer that they would take it.

BTW - CLS has much more to gain from letting a bunch of 2L gunners take this course and giving them all A's and A-'s than letting a bunch of 3Ls who have proven themselves to be GAMETHEORYPWNED take it.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7382098)

Granted, these people aren't the judges who make the decision. But they went through the clerkship process. I can't imagine how waiting to take Fed Cts could *help* anyone.

So I hold nothing against the 2Ls are are remaining in the class. There is no way taking the class now could hurt them, and there is a substantial possibility that taking it now will help them. I see no reason why they should suffer to correct for the poor planning and selfishness of a few 3Ls.

That said, the registrar should move the class to a bigger room and double its enrollment cap.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7382143)

Exactly.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7382200)

My strategy (I think) will be to apply only to a few competitive NYC clerkships next year (SDNY + 2d Cir). If I don't get these clerkships, then I'll wait a few years and try again, casting a wider net. I'm doing this because I want to work in NYC for at least a few years and don't want to clerk outside of NYC and then move back; I'd rather work here for a few years, clerk somewhere else, and then stay there.

Given this strategy, waiting to take fed courts makes sense. I won't have a bad fed courts grade on my transcript during my first round of clerkship apps. If not having fed courts on my transcript hurts me then, it won't hurt me a few years down the road.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7382262)

This is completely right. What's done is done. Here's what I wrote above which is relevant to this:

"Yes, 3Ls underestimated demand and underestimated class size. Sure, they don't have a moral high ground. But it really comes down to this: some of your fellow classmates made a mistake and need to take this class more than you. What's done is done: they're on the waitlist and you're not, but they need to take the class more than you do. So why are you being an ass?

If you want, you can try to justify your actions based on their mistakes. But they can't change what they did and their position on the waitlist. However, you can, and by not dropping the class and taking it next year you are knowingly screwing over your fellow classmates."

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7382397)

a) When more people do clerkships, the school looks better, and thus, so do we all.

b) These same people who are being screwed over are the same people who may one day be our professional contacts.

To all of the holdout 2Ls: Do the right thing.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7383730)

It helps the people who are going to get mediocre or less than stellar grades (which will make up the bulk of the class). Better to get a B in fed courts after you have a clerkship offer in hand than before.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7383065)

Sounds like 99.99999% of CLSers have a great head start to their futures as lawyers.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7383432)

2Ls who are holding onto the spots because it will 'get them that much closer to a clerkship' are absolutely retarded. It didn't seem to hurt the 3Ls that are taking it this year, did it? People like this deserve the fiery pits of hell, and each one will be scorned by every single one of his/her classmates in the years to come while applying for their own clerkships. Karma's a bitch.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7383751)

That does not change the fact that the 2Ls who don't drop the class are 1) complete douchebags 2) assholes and 3) deserve to be karmapwned in their own clerkships. There is no reason for the 2Ls to keep their spot, except to BE complete douchebags about the situation. It's this kind of thinking that makes the world realize that, yes, lawyers are assholes, and I will maintain that regardless of the spurious reasons anyone gives for the 2Ls staying in the class.

(https://autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=560475&forum_id=2#7383906)