Date: February 27th, 2008 4:05 PM Author: Bistre deep forum
The racial makeup of the city was 30.97% White, 30.69% African American, 0.66% Native American, 19.16% Asian, 1.09% Pacific Islander, 7.88% from other races, and 6.56% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 19.92% of the population.
Vallejo has the third highest percentage of Filipino Americans in the United States mainland, behind the nearby cities of Daly City and Hercules.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:25 PM Author: Ocher Tattoo
I guess not. I mean. He's a jerk. But I think it's interesting that he's going to get outted for something totally unrelated to his racist antics here. So I guess I feel sorry for him in that sense. But I don't feel sorry for him as a person.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:27 PM Author: Bistre deep forum
Fuck that. It's not like he made a relatively tame comment about the plaintiffs (think AHWIAB). He advocated raping them. This guy deserves all the embarrassment and punishment he is going to get.
Date: February 28th, 2008 7:32 PM Author: big-titted patrolman casino
Why do you feel sorry for him? He is such a coward for not being open and upfront about his beliefs in public and just posting anonymously. He's also a repugnant, hateful, obsessive, dimwit.
Date: February 28th, 2008 7:29 PM Author: big-titted patrolman casino
Vallejo, CA is the home of white trash. Pretty ghetto area - the type of place that would breed skinheads, KKK members, etc. -> people with extremely low levels of education.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:13 PM Author: french wonderful new version church building
Author: Daily Docket [102] ()
Posted: 02/27/08 03:43 PM
Flag: Best-Of Helpful NSFW Spam TOS Violation
Main Document
"Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 45(c) and applicable local rules, John Doe 21 moves to quash Plaintiffs' third party subpoena to AT&T, Inc. for information pertaining to his identity. John Doe 21, referred to in the Amended Complaint as Internet pseudonym "AK47," asks this Court to quash Plaintiff's subpoena because the Subpoena violates his First Amendment right to speak anonymously."
Of note, he seeks to limit access to IP address 75.18.198.98.
Portions of it reads like, well, a first year brief? "urges this court to help Plainfitts trample upon John Doe's constitutionally protected right to speak anonymously."
"neither properly noticed of the suit nor have the resources or legal know-how to wade through the legal and procedural thicket presented by Plaintiffs, two Yale law students who have enlisted an elite law firm"
Arguments:
A. The First Amendment protects John Doe 21's right to speak anonymously.
B. To protect qualified privilege, the court should require notice to defendants, review of the complaint, and presentation of argument and evidence before issuing a subpoena to an anonymous defendant.
C. Plaintiffs cannot overcome John Doe 21's right to speak anonymously because plaintiffs cannot demonstrate they have viable claims against John Doe 21.
D. The court must review John Doe 21's statement to determine whether it actionable.
E. Plaintiffs are not able to succeed on their intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress claims.
F. Plaintiff has not met the heightened standard required by the First Amendment.
G. The court must balance the harm of disclosure against its value.
H. Plaintiffs are using this subpoena, not for legitimate discovery purposes, but rather to intimidate John Doe 21 in the same manner that they intimidated other defendants in this case.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:15 PM Author: cerebral location Subject: Posted thus far
JOHN DOE 21's MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO QUASH
PLAINTIFF'S SUBPOENA
Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 45(c) and applicable local rules, John Doe 21 moves to quash Plaintiffs' third party subpoena to AT&T, Inc. for information pertaining to his identity. John Doe 21, referred to in the Amended Complaint as Internet pseudonym "AK47," asks this Court to quash Plaintiffs' subpoena because the Subpoena violates his First Amendment right to speak anonymously.
INTRODUCTION
Plaintiffs Doe I's and Doe II's February 15,2008 Subpoena ordering AT&T Inc. ("AT&T") to produce information relating to the identity of John Doe 21, a.k.a AK47, urges this court to help Plaintiffs trample upon John Doe's constitutionally protected right to speak anonymously. This subpoena, Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint and Ex Parte Motion for Expedited Discovery have heretofore gone unopposed by Defendants, like John Doe, who were neither properly noticed of the suit nor have the resources or legal know-how to wade through the legal and procedural thicket
presented by Plaintiffs, two Yale law students who have enlisted an elite law firm to uncover the identities of certain persons who posted unsavory but legally innocuous comments concerning Plaintiffs on an Internet website. Although the Amended Complaint and Motion For Expedited
Discovery, as they relate to John Doe 21, would not withstand even the most cursory challenge, it is extremely important that this Court protect the First Amendment and Due Process rights of John Doe 21 and the other anonymous Defendants drawn into this litigation. Though silly, the statement at issue here, i.e., "Women named Jill and [Doe II's equally common first name] should be raped,"
constitutes constitutionally protected speech. The Subpoena should be quashed.
BACKGROUND
Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint, which includes allegations ranging from intentional infliction of emotional distress and false light, Amended Complaint ("Complaint") at ~~ 62-83, appears to center on claims of defamation and copyright infringement. Most of the named Defendants, including John Doe 21, are anonymous, appear to have no relationship to each other, do not appear to know Plaintiffs, and are identified only by their screen names. John Doe 21 has never met Plaintiffs, nor does he reside in Connecticut.
Plaintiffs filed the original Complaint on June 8, 2007, in front of the Honorable Judge Christopher Droney of the Connecticut District Court for the District of Connecticut, alleging that certain posters on Autoadmit.com, a discussion site known for its silly banter and near absolute unreliability as a source of useful information, had posted comments that caused Plaintiffs a smorgasbord of harms, including causing one plaintiff to fail to receive job offers from top-tier law firms. Complaint at 1. After numerous extension requests, see Motions for Extension of Time (totaling 4), Plaintiffs on November 8, 2007, filed an Amended Complaint, dropping several Defendants and naming others, including John Doe 21. Amended Complaint at 1. Plaintiffs continued to file various motions which went unopposed by apparently unaware Defendants (see First MOTION for Extension of Time until July 7, 2008 to Modify the Scheduling Order; Plaintiffs' Motion for Expedited Discovery, Memorandum in Support Plaintiffs' Memorandum of Law in Support of Motion for Expedited Discovery), and sought and were granted leave to issue subpoenas to Internet service providers in order to locate and identify the anonymous Defendants, presumably for the purposes of drawing the actual identities of Defendants into this litigation and attributing to Defendants comments posted anonymously on Autoadmit. One such subpoena reached John Doe 21. The Subpoena was addressed to AT&T, Inc., an Internet service provider, and demanded the identity of the person who posted comments presumably traceable to the IP address 75.18.198.98. See Exhibit 1.
The Subpoena, received by John Doe 21 on or around the 18 of February 2008, originally sought and granted in Connecticut District Court, was apparently filed and issued from the United States District Court for the Central District of California. Exhibit 1. The Subpoena states that John Doe 21 has 10 days in which to prepare a motion to quash, a protective order or other motion to prevent AT&T from divulging information pertaining to his identity to Plaintiffs. This 10 day period was negotiated by Plaintiffs attorneys and AT&T. See Exhibit 1, Subpoena to AT&T at 1. Apparently, 10 days is enough time for John Doe 21 to prepare a motion concerning an area of law with which he has never dealt and concerning a multitude of federal procedural issues that only experienced litigators such as Plaintiffs' attorneys are able to navigate. On the other hand, Plaintiffs, by seeking time extension after extension, have carefully planned their strategy over a period of nearly 10 months. It has therefore taken Plaintiffs, with the aid of a cadre of competent attorneys, 10 months to craft their case, yet Plaintiffs think it appropriate to give John Doe 21 ten days to craft his.
Furthermore, the Subpoena fails to mention John Doe 21's pseudonymous identity, "AK47," fails to identify the specific court division within the Central District of California (the Central District of California contains four separate court divisions) that issued the Subpoena, and fails to otherwise identify the purpose for its issuance. Nor, to John Doe 21's knowledge, do any of Plaintiffs' moving documents in the Connecticut litigation contain any evidence linking the IP address sought to any comment posted on Autoadmit. The only piece of information related to this case mentioned in the Subpoena is John Doe 21's IP address, an address presumably linked to a comment that Plaintiffs found objectionable. Yet, this bare bones document has the potential to eviscerate John Doe 21's constitutionally guaranteed right to speak anonymously.
SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT
This Motion presents the Court with the issue of what standard should be applied to determine whether, in this particular case, the right to obtain redress from a silly statement on Autoadmit.com outweighs John Doe 21's First Amendment right to make speak anonymously. Few courts have considered this question, but it is becoming a crucial one, particularly in light of the increasing number of cases where those who have been criticized on the Internet seek to use the machinery of the courts to unmask, intimidate and silence their online critics. Indeed, as a California District Court recently remarked, "[p]eople who have committed no wrong should be able to participate online without fear that someone who wishes to harass or embarrass them can file a frivolous lawsuit and thereby gain the power of the court's order to discover their identities." Columbia Ins. Co. v. seescandy.com, 185 F.R.D. 573,578 (N.D. Cal. 1999) (considering the discovery standards applicable to the unveiling of a defendant's identity in a domain name/trademark matter).
In light of the significant privacy and free speech issues involved in unveiling the identities of anonymous speakers, a balancing test has been developed to decide whether to require the identification of anonymous speakers in litigation. Under that test, the Court will balance the harm to John Doe 21 against the Plaintiffs' need for discovery to pursue their claim. On the facts of this case, there can be no doubt that John Doe 21's right to speak anonymously should prevail.
A. THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTS JOHN DOE 21'S RIGHT TO SPEAK ANONYMOUSLY
It hardly bears mention that the First Amendment protects the right to speak anonymously. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were designed by citizens who publicly debated these documents' virtues anonymously (or pseudonymously) in letters published later as the Federalist Papers. The First and Fourth Amendments are based "at least in part on the colonists' experience with the sedition laws of England which forbade anonymous writing and which allowed warrantless invasion of any home to root out the true identity of anonymous authors." Nelson B. Lasson, The History and Development of the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, 37-50 (1937). The Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed this right. Buckley v. American Constitutional Law Found. Inc., 525 U.S. 182, 197-200 (1999); McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Comm'n., 514 U.S. 334 (1995); Talley v. California, 362 U.S. 60 (1960). These cases signify the important role of anonymous speech in the United States' history.
The Supreme Court unequivocally held in Reno v. ACLU, 521 U.S. at 870, that speech on the Internet is entitled to the full spectrum of First Amendment protections. Observing that the World Wide Web is a medium for public argument and discussion that reaches more people than any other known medium, the Court stated that "content on the Internet is as diverse as human thought." Reno, 521 U.S. at 870
In the online realm, numerous cases have upheld the constitutional right to speak anonymously on the Internet. ACLU v. Johnson, 4 F. Supp. 2d 1029, 1033 (D.N.M. 1998) aff'd, 194 F.3d 1149 (10th Cir. 1999); ACLU of Georgia, 977 F. Supp. at 1232-33; see also ApolloMEDIA Corp. v. Reno, 526 U.S. 1061 (1999), aff'g 19 F. Supp. 2d 1081 (N.D. Cal. 1998) (protecting anonymous speakers on web site at www.annoy.com, a site "created and designed to annoy" legislators through anonymous communications). The mechanics of the Internet, however, provides numerous ways to track the statements of anonymous speakers, prompting many commentators to argue that the law ought to provide special protections for Internet anonymity. See, e.g., David G. Post, Pooling Intellectual Capital: Thoughts of Anonymity, Pseudonymity, and Limited Liability in Cyberspace, 1996 U. Chi. Legal F. 139; Lee Tien, Innovation and the Information Environment: Who's Afraid of Anonymous Speech? McIntyre and the Internet, 75 Or. L. Rev. 117 (1996).
Because the First Amendment protects the right to speak anonymously, a subpoena for anonymous speakers' names and addresses is subject to a qualified privilege. And, as in other cases in which litigants seek privileged information, courts must consider the privilege before authorizing discovery. See Sony Music Entmn't v. Does, 326 F.Supp.2d 556,565 (S.D.N.Y. 2004) ("Against the backdrop of First Amendment protection for anonymous speech, courts have held that civil subpoenas seeking information regarding anonymous individuals raise First Amendment concerns.").
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:16 PM Author: Azure Lay Idiot
JOHN DOE 21's MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF MOTION TO QUASH
PLAINTIFF'S SUBPOENA
Pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 45(c) and applicable local rules, John Doe 21 moves to quash Plaintiffs' third party subpoena to AT&T, Inc. for information pertaining to his identity. John Doe 21, referred to in the Amended Complaint as Internet pseudonym "AK47," asks this Court to quash Plaintiffs' subpoena because the Subpoena violates his First Amendment right to speak anonymously.
INTRODUCTION
Plaintiffs Doe I's and Doe II's February 15,2008 Subpoena ordering AT&T Inc. ("AT&T") to produce information relating to the identity of John Doe 21, a.k.a AK47, urges this court to help Plaintiffs trample upon John Doe's constitutionally protected right to speak anonymously. This subpoena, Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint and Ex Parte Motion for Expedited Discovery have heretofore gone unopposed by Defendants, like John Doe, who were neither properly noticed of the suit nor have the resources or legal know-how to wade through the legal and procedural thicket
presented by Plaintiffs, two Yale law students who have enlisted an elite law firm to uncover the identities of certain persons who posted unsavory but legally innocuous comments concerning Plaintiffs on an Internet website. Although the Amended Complaint and Motion For Expedited
Discovery, as they relate to John Doe 21, would not withstand even the most cursory challenge, it is extremely important that this Court protect the First Amendment and Due Process rights of John Doe 21 and the other anonymous Defendants drawn into this litigation. Though silly, the statement at issue here, i.e., "Women named Jill and [Doe II's equally common first name] should be raped,"
constitutes constitutionally protected speech. The Subpoena should be quashed.
Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint, which includes allegations ranging from intentional infliction of emotional distress and false light, Amended Complaint ("Complaint") at ~~ 62-83, appears to center on claims of defamation and copyright infringement. Most of the named Defendants, including John Doe 21, are anonymous, appear to have no relationship to each other, do not appear to know Plaintiffs, and are identified only by their screen names. John Doe 21 has never met Plaintiffs, nor does he reside in Connecticut.
Plaintiffs filed the original Complaint on June 8, 2007, in front of the Honorable Judge Christopher Droney of the Connecticut District Court for the District of Connecticut, alleging that certain posters on Autoadmit.com, a discussion site known for its silly banter and near absolute unreliability as a source of useful information, had posted comments that caused Plaintiffs a smorgasbord of harms, including causing one plaintiff to fail to receive job offers from top-tier law firms. Complaint at 1. After numerous extension requests, see Motions for Extension of Time (totaling 4), Plaintiffs on November 8, 2007, filed an Amended Complaint, dropping several Defendants and naming others, including John Doe 21. Amended Complaint at 1. Plaintiffs continued to file various motions which went unopposed by apparently unaware Defendants (see First MOTION for Extension of Time until July 7, 2008 to Modify the Scheduling Order; Plaintiffs' Motion for Expedited Discovery, Memorandum in Support Plaintiffs' Memorandum of Law in Support of Motion for Expedited Discovery), and sought and were granted leave to issue subpoenas to Internet service providers in order to locate and identify the anonymous Defendants, presumably for the purposes of drawing the actual identities of Defendants into this litigation and attributing to Defendants comments posted anonymously on Autoadmit. One such subpoena reached John Doe 21. The Subpoena was addressed to AT&T, Inc., an Internet service provider, and demanded the identity of the person who posted comments presumably traceable to the IP address 75.18.198.98. See Exhibit 1.
The Subpoena, received by John Doe 21 on or around the 18 of February 2008, originally sought and granted in Connecticut District Court, was apparently filed and issued from the United States District Court for the Central District of California. Exhibit 1. The Subpoena states that John Doe 21 has 10 days in which to prepare a motion to quash, a protective order or other motion to prevent AT&T from divulging information pertaining to his identity to Plaintiffs. This 10 day period was negotiated by Plaintiffs attorneys and AT&T. See Exhibit 1, Subpoena to AT&T at 1. Apparently, 10 days is enough time for John Doe 21 to prepare a motion concerning an area of law with which he has never dealt and concerning a multitude of federal procedural issues that only experienced litigators such as Plaintiffs' attorneys are able to navigate. On the other hand, Plaintiffs, by seeking time extension after extension, have carefully planned their strategy over a period of nearly 10 months. It has therefore taken Plaintiffs, with the aid of a cadre of competent attorneys, 10 months to craft their case, yet Plaintiffs think it appropriate to give John Doe 21 ten days to craft his.
Furthermore, the Subpoena fails to mention John Doe 21's pseudonymous identity, "AK47," fails to identify the specific court division within the Central District of California (the Central District of California contains four separate court divisions) that issued the Subpoena, and fails to otherwise identify the purpose for its issuance. Nor, to John Doe 21's knowledge, do any of Plaintiffs' moving documents in the Connecticut litigation contain any evidence linking the IP address sought to any comment posted on Autoadmit. The only piece of information related to this case mentioned in the Subpoena is John Doe 21's IP address, an address presumably linked to a comment that Plaintiffs found objectionable. Yet, this bare bones document has the potential to eviscerate John Doe 21's constitutionally guaranteed right to speak anonymously.
This Motion presents the Court with the issue of what standard should be applied to determine whether, in this particular case, the right to obtain redress from a silly statement on Autoadmit.com outweighs John Doe 21's First Amendment right to make speak anonymously. Few courts have considered this question, but it is becoming a crucial one, particularly in light of the increasing number of cases where those who have been criticized on the Internet seek to use the machinery of the courts to unmask, intimidate and silence their online critics. Indeed, as a California District Court recently remarked, "[p]eople who have committed no wrong should be able to participate online without fear that someone who wishes to harass or embarrass them can file a frivolous lawsuit and thereby gain the power of the court's order to discover their identities." Columbia Ins. Co. v. seescandy.com, 185 F.R.D. 573,578 (N.D. Cal. 1999) (considering the discovery standards applicable to the unveiling of a defendant's identity in a domain name/trademark matter).
In light of the significant privacy and free speech issues involved in unveiling the identities of anonymous speakers, a balancing test has been developed to decide whether to require the identification of anonymous speakers in litigation. Under that test, the Court will balance the harm to John Doe 21 against the Plaintiffs' need for discovery to pursue their claim. On the facts of this case, there can be no doubt that John Doe 21's right to speak anonymously should prevail.
A. THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTS JOHN DOE 21'S RIGHT TO SPEAK ANONYMOUSLY
It hardly bears mention that the First Amendment protects the right to speak anonymously. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution were designed by citizens who publicly debated these documents' virtues anonymously (or pseudonymously) in letters published later as the Federalist Papers. The First and Fourth Amendments are based "at least in part on the colonists' experience with the sedition laws of England which forbade anonymous writing and which allowed warrantless invasion of any home to root out the true identity of anonymous authors." Nelson B. Lasson, The History and Development of the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution, 37-50 (1937). The Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed this right. Buckley v. American Constitutional Law Found. Inc., 525 U.S. 182, 197-200 (1999); McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Comm'n., 514 U.S. 334 (1995); Talley v. California, 362 U.S. 60 (1960). These cases signify the important role of anonymous speech in the United States' history.
The Supreme Court unequivocally held in Reno v. ACLU, 521 U.S. at 870, that speech on the Internet is entitled to the full spectrum of First Amendment protections. Observing that the World Wide Web is a medium for public argument and discussion that reaches more people than any other known medium, the Court stated that "content on the Internet is as diverse as human thought." Reno, 521 U.S. at 870
In the online realm, numerous cases have upheld the constitutional right to speak anonymously on the Internet. ACLU v. Johnson, 4 F. Supp. 2d 1029, 1033 (D.N.M. 1998) aff'd, 194 F.3d 1149 (10th Cir. 1999); ACLU of Georgia, 977 F. Supp. at 1232-33; see also ApolloMEDIA Corp. v. Reno, 526 U.S. 1061 (1999), aff'g 19 F. Supp. 2d 1081 (N.D. Cal. 1998) (protecting anonymous speakers on web site at www.annoy.com, a site "created and designed to annoy" legislators through anonymous communications). The mechanics of the Internet, however, provides numerous ways to track the statements of anonymous speakers, prompting many commentators to argue that the law ought to provide special protections for Internet anonymity. See, e.g., David G. Post, Pooling Intellectual Capital: Thoughts of Anonymity, Pseudonymity, and Limited Liability in Cyberspace, 1996 U. Chi. Legal F. 139; Lee Tien, Innovation and the Information Environment: Who's Afraid of Anonymous Speech? McIntyre and the Internet, 75 Or. L. Rev. 117 (1996).
Because the First Amendment protects the right to speak anonymously, a subpoena for anonymous speakers' names and addresses is subject to a qualified privilege. And, as in other cases in which litigants seek privileged information, courts must consider the privilege before authorizing discovery. See Sony Music Entmn't v. Does, 326 F.Supp.2d 556,565 (S.D.N.Y. 2004) ("Against the backdrop of First Amendment protection for anonymous speech, courts have held that civil subpoenas seeking information regarding anonymous individuals raise First Amendment concerns.").
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:17 PM Author: french wonderful new version church building
I dont think you understand the hilarity:
Date: November 10th, 2007 12:59 AM
Author: AK47
it's actually an interesting case. if you actually understood the issues or were familiar with any of the legal issues presented in it, i'd discuss it with you. thank goodness people like you never become prestigious lawyers or judges.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:26 PM Author: Titillating Principal's Office
I think he was added in the amended complaint, after he made comments about the Does when the lawsuit was originally filed (someone correct me here if I'm wrong)
That makes it doubley lulz-worthy, if I remember the timeline correctly. Even sweeter is that after he was added he came to the board laughing off the lawsuit, saying he'd never be outted.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:32 PM Author: Bistre deep forum
Correct. This traces back to the ISP, not to the specific address of the internet user. Someone living in SF could very easy trace back to SBC in Vallejo.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:22 PM Author: french wonderful new version church building
"This Motion presents the Court with the issue of what standard should be applied to determine whether, in this particular case, the right to obtain redress from a silly statement on Autoadmit.com outweighs John Doe 21's First Amendment right to make speak anonymously."
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:29 PM Author: honey-headed party of the first part orchestra pit
well it seems like it could be edited over a few times, but he has done some research and apparently all federal cases to address the issue apply a favorable balancing test.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:38 PM Author: maroon dragon
dooder I used to work for an ISP and I can tell you that would not have been a successful approach at all. it would be like trying to claim a phone number isn't yours, even though you paid the bills and made calls from the phone that it was assigned to
his only chance is to try to convince the judge that he should be able to remain anonymous
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:52 PM Author: Bistre deep forum
I believe the case you're referring to was a situation in which a grandmother got sued for the file-sharing done on her account by a grandchild. It wasn't a case of mistaken IP address.
"She does not trade music, she says, does not have any younger music-loving relatives living with her, and does not use her computer for much more than sending e-mail and checking the tides."
Date: February 29th, 2008 2:20 PM Author: maroon dragon
these are cases where the ISP obviously made an error, and in these cases, it can be shown exactly what their error was...
this is a situation where the ISP simply goes back and looks at its records and says, "oops, yeah, we fucked up. that IP address really belonged to John Doe and not this old woman."
In which case, the RIAA just goes after the correct offender
In the vast majorty of cases though, the person who the ISP identifies as the offender is going to be the correct offender, and if that person challenges the accuracy of the ISPs records, the ISP will simply have someone go to court to testify to their authenticity or sign a sworn affidavit to that effect (which is what usually happens since people who know they are guilty don't spend too much time challenging this since they know they can and will be shown to be the offender anyway).
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:48 PM Author: Nudist puce parlor
Also, look at the recent motion to quash that was filed in oregon. I know it was for the university and not an ISP but the same arguments would probably work.
Date: February 27th, 2008 9:07 PM Author: sable stubborn plaza
Question @ Lamronba: What about wireless internet connections? I know in the past I've logged into wifi connections of my surrounding apt neighbors, albeit by accident. Whats to say an IP address was not used by someone other than the person who payed the bills?
Date: February 28th, 2008 10:28 AM Author: maroon dragon
this is a bit of a gray area. as a matter of our company policy, we held the account holder responsible, but there's not a lot of legal precedent here
however, it's also a violation of state law in a lot of places for internet subscribers to redistribute or otherwise make available (i.e., not securing their wireless network) the internet connection that they pay their ISPs for, and we nailed people on that alone more than once.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:42 PM Author: Titillating Principal's Office
Date: November 10th, 2007 1:25 AM
Author: AK47
IIED is a nigger of a tort. you're right that it'd be fucked up if i were outed. you're definitely right about that. but again, IIED, defamation, or whatever the hell they're alleging AK47 did, is a hell of a nigger of a tort. NIGGER.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:48 PM Author: Titillating Principal's Office
The only other one that would be as legendary is pauliewalnuts, but he never said anything that inflammatory, and there's a good chance that he was pensive anyway.
So yeah, AK47 would be absolutely raped... er, fucked over.
Date: February 27th, 2008 4:58 PM Author: honey-headed party of the first part orchestra pit
ha the ali g ice cream gloves defense (internet search for ice cream: 73,239 hits. Internet search for gloves: 24,243 hits):
"Indeed, a Google.com search for "Jill" produces more than 74,000,000 results, and a search for Doe II's first name produces more than 46,000,000. If John Doe 21's words are indeed actionable, then John Doe 21 - along with any other person that mentions "Jill" or Doe II's innumerably common first name on the Internet in the context of an unsavory, if silly, suggestion or opinion - may have opened himself to nearly 120,000,000 lawsuits."
Date: February 27th, 2008 5:05 PM Author: geriatric vermilion brunch antidepressant drug
Can someone explain in laymen's terms what happened here? I'm not comfortable with the legal jargon and don't feel like deciphering all of that stuff at work.
Date: February 27th, 2008 5:13 PM Author: honey-headed party of the first part orchestra pit
GTO sold him out:
"Plaintiffs are attempting to intimidate John Doe 21 in much the same way that Plaintiffs intimidated and the original principal defendant in this case, Anthony Ciolli, into providing Does with the internet protocol ("IP") addresses of John Doe 21 and the other Defendants. Defendant Ciolli provided Plaintiffs with John Doe 21's IP address despite the lack of any legal duty or mandate to do so. Defendant Ciolli is immune from liability under Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which states that "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider," and effectively immunizes ISPs, Internet discussion board operators such as Mr. Ciolli, and other service providers from torts committed by users over their systems. However, Defendant Ciolli acquiesced to the demands of Plaintiffs, no doubt because of the prospect of litigating an expensive suit in federal court."
"Chauncey" is a frequent commentator on that site. See, e.g.,
COMMENT:
AUTHOR: Chauncey
EMAIL:
IP: 75.18.187.200
URL:
DATE: 06/29/2007 04:41:57 PM
blacks in america will stay poor and violent as long as they consider it an insult when anyone tells them they need to take more responsibility for their predicament. personality, i don't really care: i've already made it. if you people want to maintain the status-quo, then go right ahead.
Date: February 27th, 2008 5:25 PM Author: Bistre deep forum
He appears to hold himself out on the blackprof site as a successful black man who is critical of today's black community, but here he is on xoxo admitting that he's Jewish:
Date: September 20th, 2005 1:47 AM
Author: Chauncey
As a flaming jooooooo, I can definitively confirm that it is pronounced "Sun- STEEN."
Date: February 27th, 2008 10:46 PM Author: Nudist puce parlor
there was a gay black jew guy on the Real World once. He slapped some chick on the show and almost got kicked off. Was on the west coast too! (Seattle? I believe).
Anyways, this could be him, same demeanor. Wow we may have a real celebrity in our midst.
Date: February 27th, 2008 5:27 PM Author: Bistre deep forum
Same here. It's truly frightening. I also used to be convinced that people like aznazn are schtick, but I no longer believe so. This place attracts some truly fucked up psychotics.
Date: February 27th, 2008 10:30 PM Author: cheese-eating boltzmann tanning salon
BLB posters are former XOXO regulars who got sick of all the garbage on here. As a result, BLB posts are of higher quality than XOXO posts. By far. That's why XOXO trolls emphasize the lack of quantity and ignore quality.
The only thing left the fucker has is his dignity. His whole purpose here was to protect people's identity in order to create an environment in which people could say whatever they wanted. He has betrayed his prinicples.
Date: February 27th, 2008 11:49 PM Author: Bat Shit Crazy National
cuz when you do it on a message board that the individuals' community reads, its intentional infliction of emotional distress. especially when it's part of a larger mob assault on the individuals' reputation and peace of mind.
redress for injury and deterring antisocial behavior are core principles of tort law, you simpleton faggot.
Date: February 28th, 2008 12:01 AM Author: bespoke death wish hairy legs
thanks mang. you're right, I should be aware of the core principles of tort law, not being a lawyer and all. my bad.
something just seems off about the whole thing. honestly, I have no idea how intentional infliction of emotional distress is proved. does it make a difference if it was intended as a joke? I mean, you could look at all that guys' posts and I'm guessing he's wished rape on a lot of people.
Date: February 28th, 2008 12:43 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy National
i don't see what's off. given the context (a board campaign to harass the does), i think his motives are clear enough--certainly clear enough to support the subpeona. i have no idea about the specific standard for IIED in that jurisdiction, but it seems obvious to me that the traditional elements are met.
i think it sounds strange to you cuz if he's punished, it seems like we're all vulnerable. but then again, having a hair trigger on your gun doesn't justify shooting someone.
Date: February 28th, 2008 12:54 AM Author: Fragrant Scarlet Half-breed Abode
Wow. Unbelievable. There are some solid legal points in there, but they're pretty much lost amid the hyperbole and snide remarks.
Hint: if you want a court to rule in your favor, don't whine about how the suit has wasted your (and the court's) time. Just make your arguments and be done with it. If it really is a waste of time, the judge will be able to figure it out on his (or her) own. The attempts to rationalize the comments are the worst. They read like the rants of a petulant five year old. It's sad, because there are some seeds of legal analysis - quite possibly enough to win the motion - amidst the almost 30 pages of bile. But the tone and lack of propriety is almost certain to lead a judge to rule against him.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:05 AM Author: Fragrant Scarlet Half-breed Abode
i should have said "almost certain to lead a judge to look for any possible reason to rule against him."
obviously, tone alone won't make you lose if the law is on your side. but if you piss off the judge with a rambling, insulting 30 page response, the benefit of the doubt will go the other way when the law is murky.
but who knows. maybe the response will amuse the judge and the subpoena will be quashed.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:20 AM Author: frum institution
The comment is so crude that it may almost certainly "lead a judge to look for any possible reason to rule against him," like you said.But there's almost no doubt in my mind that the subpoena will be quashed. Even without getting into all the nitty gritty details of pseudonymous internet speech, the fact that there's virtually no way that the comment can be tied specifically to Doe II even if there was more discovery is pretty damning.
Certainly the crassness of the comment & his tone (and the excessive length) of his motion would draw a snide comment or two from the judge if there was a hearing or written ruling.
It's too bad for the Ps that this is one of the few (only?) Defendants whose IP address they uncovered.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:34 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy National
you seem not to realize how a normal IRL person reads a line like "X and Y should be raped". especially when Y is the first name of a famous board figure. its completely absurd to argue that he was referring to someone else, or speaking in generalizations
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:42 AM Author: frum institution
You seem to not realize that there are literally millions of different topics posted about here- not just the Does- and that AK47's comment ("Women named [X] and [Y] should be raped") cannot be interpreted as referring to a specific individual. Especially since one of the names has nothing to do with the Does. If you take the situation and apply it IRL instead of on this board, it doesn't even pass the laugh test. Especially for an IIED claim.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:21 AM Author: Fragrant Scarlet Half-breed Abode
did you read it? i'd argue there's a difference between smart-ass and immature/petulant, and this is waaaay more the latter. it wasn't clever, it was just pathetic and whiny.
and it doesn't help when it's coming from a defendant that is already a rather unsympathetic figure.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:13 AM Author: Bistre deep forum
Wow, this may be the highlight of the brief:
"The fact that Plaintiffs gratuitously mentioned one "R--n M-----r" in their moving documents (see, e.g., Plaintiffs' Memorandum of Law in Support of Motion for Expedited Discovery at 11) suggests that Plaintiffs' true goal in filing the complaint and this subpoena is simply to expose the identity of the Defendants in this case, humiliate them by attributing to them the comments made on the site, coerce them into silence, and then abandon the case due to its frivolity. Indeed, R--n M-----r has already been parodied, insulted and attacked on the Autoadmit site due to his name appearing in Plaintiffs' moving papers. A Google.com search for "R--n M-----r" produces, as thefirstfour results, four Autoadmit threads in which R--n M-----r is alleged to be a "dirty snitching nigger" due to his connection with this case."
AK47 begging the court to protect his identity so that nobody on xoxo can call him a "nigger" deserves a true 180.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:22 AM Author: frum institution
Yeah, I really would have left out that part. He's basically asking the Court to spare him the same treatment that the Ds gave to the Does. Not very sympathetic at all.
Date: February 28th, 2008 12:10 AM Author: honey-headed party of the first part orchestra pit
after the original suit was filed, did GTO have the duty not to destroy records relevant to the litigation? maybe ak47's stupid idea to post after the suit was his undoing.
Date: February 28th, 2008 12:50 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy National
wow, i can't believe KVN/YLS are enlisted to engage this sort of nonsense:
Plaintiffs' Amended Complaint alleges that John Doe 21's comment constitutes a description of "sexual violence" against the plaintiff whose first name was mentioned in the comment. Amended Complaint at §§ 43-i; 49. As explained above, however, John Doe's comment was not a "description" of anything. He was not "describing" an event he had perceived, nor was he "describing" an event that had transpired or was to transpire. In any event, if "descriptions of sexual violence" were sufficient, in whole or in part, to bring an action for intentional infliction of emotional distress, then hundreds of thousands of police officers and crisis counselors across the country would be open to lawsuits alleging intentional infliction of emotional distress since they routinely articulate "descriptions of sexual violence" against persons. Courts should not countenance such a blatant abuse of the legal system to unveil and intimidate anonymous speakers, and it is rather offensive that Plaintiffs are attempting to appeal to this Courts' sympathies by misquoting John Doe 21's comment and lumping it with other more offensive comments, thereby attributing those other comments to John Doe 21.
Date: February 28th, 2008 12:53 AM Author: Fluffy thriller bbw regret
holy shit. the greatest moment in the history of this long board. in so many ways, i completely fucking loathe the racist megaposter, but we might as well shut it down because there will never be anything as awesome as this here ever again.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:40 AM Author: Bistre deep forum
Damn, I almost forgot about the barzini pwnage. I wonder what the hell that kid is up to. I can't even imagine him functioning without xoxo. He was the original aznazn.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:51 AM Author: Fluffy thriller bbw regret
i'm not one of the D's, obviously, but this kind of made me want to file another motion to quash that raised these legal issues without all the piffle. i'd just mail it anonymously claiming to be one of the posters, and while i don't like AK47 i think the does are being ridiculous about this and responding to a spitball with an a-bomb.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:01 AM Author: Hideous olive office
IIRC: posted here about a girl he had a date with or something, showed pics. someone who knew her IRL recognized her from pics, emailed her links of barzini threads. game over.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:49 AM Author: Aromatic dilemma depressive
I personally hate AK47 and think 99% of this response is hyperbolic bullshit. However, one of his points resonates with me. His post, while incendiary as hell, did not constitute a specific reference to the Does. He should not have been named in the complaint.
Date: February 28th, 2008 1:57 AM Author: Bistre deep forum
This is true, but the implication was plenty clear to the intended audience. That might be enough to get them past discovery, but not to succeed on the merits.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:17 AM Author: Cocky Indecent Athletic Conference Parlour
I think after the Does were initially "outted", they were thrown to the wolves as de facto public figures. Does that mean AK47 needed actual malice to be liable for IIED? If so, I would argue that actual malice is impossible when your incendiary comment lacked adequate identifying information, even if one COULD reasonably infer he was referring to them based on context.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:25 AM Author: Cocky Indecent Athletic Conference Parlour
Once PaulieWalnuts plastered this public message board with the names and pics of the women they became public figures. Subsequent comments made about them by other posters were in reference to these newly minted public figures.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:30 AM Author: Bistre deep forum
That's not nearly enough to make them public figures. They certainly are not general public figures, and it's not even clear that case law recognizes an involuntary limited public figure.
The key issue is whether there was a defamatory statement. That's where the identification issue comes in. The public figure/actual malice issues are pretty cut and dry. They're private figures.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:47 AM Author: Bistre deep forum
If I recall correctly, the actual malice standard only applies in IIED cases where you're dealing with 1.) a public figure; and 2.) matters of public concern.
Discussion of whether people name X and Y should be raped doesn't qualify as "matters of public concern." So it doesn't matter if the plaintiffs are public figures (which they obviously are not).
Date: February 28th, 2008 10:55 AM Author: honey-headed party of the first part orchestra pit
i don't know if there is such a 2-part test...that jerry falwell case was about some playboy article that just parodied some liquor ad and talked about his "first time."
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:56 AM Author: Bistre deep forum
This is probably right. If he can't quash the subpoena, you can be damn sure that he'll get the axe from his firm and be blackballed. Just look at what happened to GTO, who was never even accused of making any inflammatory or derogatory statements. The merits of the suit are practically irrelevant as far as AK47's career is concerned.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:24 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy National
to become an involuntary public figure, you have to act/fail to act in a way in which a reasonable person would understand that publicity would ensue. HTH.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:29 AM Author: Cocky Indecent Athletic Conference Parlour
Attending the number one ranked law school in the country and flaunting yourself on youtube documentaries discussing your past extracurricular accomplishments might constitute acting in a way which a reasonable person would understand that publicity would ensue.
Date: February 28th, 2008 2:15 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy National
"did not constitute a specific reference to the Does"
this is an open factual matter that turns on circumstantial evidence (other AK47 posts, posts from other monikers at that domain) and AK47's credibility, which isn't helped by the fact that everyone in his right mind knows who he was talking about.
the most defendant friendly rule for subpoenas in anonymous posting cases is that P must have enough evidence to defeat SJ.
Date: March 12th, 2008 1:45 AM Author: razzle famous landscape painting
You mean the odds that AK47 actually works at KVM? HOLY FUCK wouldn't that be hilarious? He would DEFINITELY get fired on the spot for cause and disbarred for that. It would make a hell of a great story though.